Kotare Spitfire Mk.Ia (1/32)

[Guest]

A chap I know, elected to ditch a Sea Fury off Ayrshire in the 80’s when one of his U/C failed. Up to 5000 feet, pointed it in a safe direction and jumped!! (Same chap was also responsible for ditching the last, at the time, flying Sea Fury).

Wait, they let him into the last flying one given his previous record?!

[Waspie]

Wait, they let him into the last flying one given his previous record?! :smiling3:

I don't think he does it deliberately!! The second was down to an engine failure, after ripping both wings off and substantial damage to the underside - it was written off!! Sad but at least they had another nearing completion in the Navy Wings restoration shed.

[Tim Marlow]

Wouldn’t the fact that they were sat on their parachutes, which, in turn, fitted into the seat base, stop them submarining? After all, the chute had straps around the legs as well as the shoulders.

[stillp]

I 'submarined' when I crashed my Imp into a power pole in 1977, as my three-point harness, not the inertia reel type, was too long for the car so was loose. The submarining cost me a smashed ankle as the floor came up to meet my foot going down, and also several back teeth as I was stopped from sliding when the diagonal belt caught me under my chin and pulled the back of my jaw up. On the other hand, it saved me from a worse injury as a heavy competition silence that was on the rear parcel shelf was flung forward and just clipped the top of my head as I slid down under the dashboard, leaving a six-stitch has in my scalp. Had it hit squarely on the back of my skull I probably wouldn't have survived.
Pete

[Waspie]

Wouldn’t the fact that they were sat on their parachutes, which, in turn, fitted into the seat base, stop them submarining? After all, the chute had straps around the legs as well as the shoulders.

Don't know how the seats were configured. Flat bases or like a pan for a chute to sit in it. Being ex RN we usually had dinghy's under our arses. (Sea Kings) Wasps we had a different dinghy which was worn on our back.
Only time we wore parachutes were if we were on a test flight over 10,000 feet!! Then they were worn on our back.
Been looking at Pros and motors all afternoon re Chris's Tiger issues, (I can't do any work on my chilly until my new glasses arrive sometime next week) Think I'll have a break from props and look and see if I can establish when 5 point harness were introduced!!!

[stona]

"Flat bases or like a pan for a chute to sit in it."

So, the lozenge shaped depression in both metal and resin bonded paper Spitfire seats was to accept the air bottle that inflated the dinghy, not the parachute which was far too large to fit it.

The reason the Kotare kit has a 'flat' seat pan is because at the time it was built the pilots did not have a dinghy. They did have a sheet of 'sorbo rubber' between the parachute and their derrieres. No idea what 'sorbo rubber' was but presumably it served as some slight padding.

[Guest]

“Sorbo rubber” appears to be a term for a spongy form of rubber. I imagine that the pilots got what amounted to a piece of modern camper’s sleeping mat.

[Waspie]

“Sorbo rubber” appears to be a term for a spongy form of rubber. I imagine that the pilots got what amounted to a piece of modern camper’s sleeping mat.

Fist word that entered my shell of a brain cell was ‘absorbent’ maybe a play on words! That or invented by an Aussie??? :smiling2: :smiling2: :smiling2:

[stona]

I did a bit of googling after my last post and discovered a bit of obscure history!

From Grace's Guide to British Industrial History.

"In 1916, when the Great War was at its height, in response to an urgent National demand, Mr. G. W. Leeson, who had spent over fifteen years experimenting to find a cellular rubber that would possess all the advantages and none of the defects of natural sponge, opened a small works at Chiswick, and the Leeson Sponge and Rubber Co., Ltd., came into being [...] Soon this small Chiswick factory could no longer cope with the demand, and larger and more convenient works were acquired in Maybury Road, Woking. In 1918 the present Company was formed under the title of "Sorbo Rubber-Sponge Products Ltd."

So that's from where we get the name of this product.

From a modern manufacturer, still using the term 'Sorbo Rubber'.

"An open-cell industrial sponge, a natural rubber sponge material manufactured with patterned skin and an open-cell structure giving it excellent compression recovery properties."

And.

"Open cell industrial sponge is manufactured in roll form in standard thicknesses ranging from 3 mm up to 25 mm with skin finish on both faces."

It's this sort of thing:



So just a bit of padding between the bulky parachute pack and harness and the average pilot's delicate posterior!

[Waspie]

I did a bit of googling after my last post and discovered a bit of obscure history!

From Grace's Guide to British Industrial History.

"In 1916, when the Great War was at its height, in response to an urgent National demand, Mr. G. W. Leeson, who had spent over fifteen years experimenting to find a cellular rubber that would possess all the advantages and none of the defects of natural sponge, opened a small works at Chiswick, and the Leeson Sponge and Rubber Co., Ltd., came into being [...] Soon this small Chiswick factory could no longer cope with the demand, and larger and more convenient works were acquired in Maybury Road, Woking. In 1918 the present Company was formed under the title of "Sorbo Rubber-Sponge Products Ltd."

So that's from where we get the name of this product.

From a modern manufacturer, still using the term 'Sorbo Rubber'.

"An open-cell industrial sponge, a natural rubber sponge material manufactured with patterned skin and an open-cell structure giving it excellent compression recovery properties."

And.

"Open cell industrial sponge is manufactured in roll form in standard thicknesses ranging from 3 mm up to 25 mm with skin finish on both faces."

It's this sort of thing:

[ATTACH]485123[/ATTACH]

So just a bit of padding between the bulky parachute pack and harness and the average pilot's delicate posterior!

It’s still like sitting on concrete after a few hours!!!!
All the seats I have sat on get through to your delicate posterior after a few hours, be it rubber, sheepskin or plain old canvas!!
Numbus-bumus sets in!!! 5000+ hours as confirmation!!!

[Tim Marlow]

I did a bit of googling after my last post and discovered a bit of obscure history!

From Grace's Guide to British Industrial History.

"In 1916, when the Great War was at its height, in response to an urgent National demand, Mr. G. W. Leeson, who had spent over fifteen years experimenting to find a cellular rubber that would possess all the advantages and none of the defects of natural sponge, opened a small works at Chiswick, and the Leeson Sponge and Rubber Co., Ltd., came into being [...] Soon this small Chiswick factory could no longer cope with the demand, and larger and more convenient works were acquired in Maybury Road, Woking. In 1918 the present Company was formed under the title of "Sorbo Rubber-Sponge Products Ltd."

So that's from where we get the name of this product.

From a modern manufacturer, still using the term 'Sorbo Rubber'.

"An open-cell industrial sponge, a natural rubber sponge material manufactured with patterned skin and an open-cell structure giving it excellent compression recovery properties."

And.

"Open cell industrial sponge is manufactured in roll form in standard thicknesses ranging from 3 mm up to 25 mm with skin finish on both faces."

It's this sort of thing:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1203946[/ATTACH]

So just a bit of padding between the bulky parachute pack and harness and the average pilot's delicate posterior!

Jakko was right then…….camping mat…..also makes great model railway track underlay……

[Mickc1440]

With all the great work you did on the cockpit it was a good call on the seatbelts to finish it off, lovely work so far

[stona]

Jakko was right then…….camping mat…..also makes great model railway track underlay……

He was.
I've now gone down a dark alley. If this piece of camping mat was between the pilot and the parachute pack it was either attached to the harness or pack (the latter seems unlikely). I can't find any evidence for it

[Tim Marlow]

He was.
I've now gone down a dark alley. If this piece of camping mat was between the pilot and the parachute pack it was either attached to the harness or pack (the latter seems unlikely). I can't find any evidence for it

Could’ve been stitched to his bum I suppose . Seriously though, never seen it used in period shots. Would be quite awkward to place it as the pilot sat down wouldn’t it? First thing to be ditched during a scramble I should think, so perhaps it was supplied but not used by experienced aircrew?

[langy71]

He was.
I've now gone down a dark alley. If this piece of camping mat was between the pilot and the parachute pack it was either attached to the harness or pack (the latter seems unlikely). I can't find any evidence for it

Any possibility that the pilots were 'issued' with said rubber mat and they then binned it, due to the hassle of constantly having to carry it to and from each aircraft?
I'm basing this thought around the idea that in the event of damage to their airframe they'd be assigned a different one, so would have to 'swap' any 'comfort items' between them.

(possibly the same kind of scenario, but ask any ex-squaddie just how much of his issued kit he actually used and most will be able to list a couple of items that were dumped in the rear of his locker never to see the light of day again...)