Tamiya 1/48th Scale Spitfire Mk Vb

[Scratchbuilder]

Well, last night I repainted that wing and then gave the whole thing two coats of humbrol acrylic gloss varnish. left it all night to dry and
just now I tried applying a decal using just water, no decalfix and.. it took the damn paint off my wing again!

I give up

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1221969[/ATTACH]

Problem solved.... You are using acrylic varnish. The decal solution will react to the acrylic varnish, it is best to apply a lacquer gloss varnish eg Mr Color, Tamiya.... The decal solution will in some cases act like a paint remover as will the warm water.
You have done nothing wrong it was the method that was wrong, I suffered the same myself, but unlike you I had to repaint the whole thing as the solution ran amok...
Do not give up - you are in a learning area, I suffered the same problems a decade ago when I came back to modelling and my mistakes were about £100 a time with cast resin armoured vehicles and using the wrong adhesive which melted the resin - and as you can see I am still here and still to this day learning, I have yet to master buildings from foam board despite watching videos on YT, and lord help me when I finally start to tackle 3D printing.....

[Tim Marlow]

Sound advice from Mike, Dont give up. With your perseverance and our combined hints and tips we‘ll crack this :thumb2: It can be a maddening hobby at times though, and really shouldn’t be this hard :crying:

This is not something I’ve specifically come across before. On the other hand, I’ve had paint come loose under masking tape when I’ve sprayed from too far away, and I’ve had primer come off under some colours and not others on the same build. This sort of thing happens to all of us, and the best you can do is learn how to fix it.

Two questions…..and I apologise if you’ve already mentioned this in your build log.

1. Did the paint strip right back to plastic or was it just to the primer layer?
2. Did you clean the model before priming?

Question 1 tells us where the issue is, and question 2 lets us know if there was any foreign material on the surface that stopped the paint sticking properly. Acrylic paint really doesn’t adhere well to a greasy surface, even finger oils from handling can sometimes give issues. As we all know, oil and water don’t mix, so acrylic paint with its water solvent will just sit on top of the surface oil. Laquer varnish, as mentioned by Mike, doesn’t suffer from this as the solvents in the paint will dissolve the oils on the surface allowing the paint to bond properly.

As to the decal solution, which one are you using? It does sound a bit fierce.

[Guest]

I see.. Well I guess I'm stumped then. I cannot use laquer based varnish as I have no ventilation whatsoever and I know that stuff pongs!

1: it went back to the primer I believe (although that is the same colour as the plastic so I could be wrong)
2: Yes, I cleaned it with soap and water

Decal solution was humbrol decalfix

[Guest]

Problem solved.... You are using acrylic varnish. The decal solution will react to the acrylic varnish, it is best to apply a lacquer gloss varnish eg Mr Color, Tamiya.... The decal solution will in some cases act like a paint remover as will the warm water.
You have done nothing wrong it was the method that was wrong, I suffered the same myself, but unlike you I had to repaint the whole thing as the solution ran amok...
Do not give up - you are in a learning area, I suffered the same problems a decade ago when I came back to modelling and my mistakes were about £100 a time with cast resin armoured vehicles and using the wrong adhesive which melted the resin - and as you can see I am still here and still to this day learning, I have yet to master buildings from foam board despite watching videos on YT, and lord help me when I finally start to tackle 3D printing.....

£100 and it melted it? oh my word I would have been devastated!

[Guest]

Which kind of paint did you use on the model, anyway? I ask because I’ve never had model paint run like that from plain water going over it.

[Guest]

Tamiya acrylic paint thinned with tamiya X-20a

Here's a pic of the wing, I added one decal and 20 mins later the paint underneath dripped off.

[Waspie]

Which kind of paint did you use on the model, anyway? I ask because I’ve never had model paint run like that from plain water going over it.

I'd like to have thought most paints for models were impervious to water!!!! Is this a new phenomena?

[Tim Marlow]

I’m at a loss to be honest. X-20A has alcohol in it so paint thinned with that should not have problems with finger oils. No idea what is going on here……. to be certain, that decal was put on with just water wasn’t it??

[Guest]

I’m at a loss to be honest. X-20A has alcohol in it so paint thinned with that should not have problems with finger oils. No idea what is going on here……. to be certain, that decal was put on with just water wasn’t it??

Yes the latest image that decal was just tap water. no decalfix

[Tim Marlow]

I assume the paint film is stable and doesn’t come off when handled? It certainly looks it in the pictures. I just don’t get it because Tamiya acrylic basically becomes a plastic film when the solvent evaporates off and it dries, like any other acrylic paint. Redissolving that with water should be like trying to redissolved a boiled egg?

[Guest]

That’s what I was thinking too: if this is acrylic paint (as I assumed) it should essentially become impervious to water once it’s dry (well, in small amounts, anyway — put it outside in the rain for a year and a lot of paint will be gone). Something odd is going on here, but I can’t put my finger on what it is

[Andy T]

Sorry to see the trouble you're having Steve, I'd really like to help but like the other guys, I'm a bit stumped!

I've seen similar when people have used the hairspray technique for chipping but I doubt you are into that just yet. The decal water soaks through the paint, activating the hairspray and causes the paint to lift. Maybe there's something else on the surface causing a similar effect, like residual decalfix from your previous attempt? I would have washed it off under a running tap if it had done that to my paint, just to ensure all traces were gone.

I've never used the humbrol varnish but I wonder if that isn't playing nicely with the tamiya paint or X20a. When layering different types of product like that I always try and give them as long as possible to dry. Maybe the water based gloss is sealing the solvents into the tamiya paint so it's not fully cured underneath. It's a long shot, but a possibility.

I'm sorry to be clutching at straws but it's such an unusual situation that I've never come across before.

If I were in your situation I'd move forward by washing the affected area thoroughly to remove any possible contamination, sanding back any dodgy looking paint, then wash and dry thoroughly again. Then restart the process, leaving the paint overnight before varnish (or don't varnish at all before decals). I know it's going backwards but maybe it's better to resolve the issue with this kit to ensure trouble free modelling on your next.

[Neil Merryweather]

I know it's going backwards but maybe it's better to resolve the issue with this kit to ensure trouble free modelling on your next.

Very wise words! Stick with it Steve

[Tim Marlow]

I’d go with Andy’s advice as well. What he doesn’t know about paint and painting probably isn’t worth knowing.

[Guest]

It can't be residual decalfix as I always tried to add decals in areas I'd not used before. It went, underside wing, upper wing, fuselage.
as for this model, well I don't see the point in stripping it and repainting it as I've now ruined/destroyed/lost many of the decals as I tried to apply them in different areas and each one did this.

I think this model has come to an end now, it's a shame to leave a lovely Spitfire like this but I'm not going into buying new decalsets etc. I've been talking to other
people about this and they say Humbrol is the problem, I'm really not so sure and don't want to blame them if the issue is me.

I'll be honest, I'm going to take a day or two to consider if I want to continue or just sell all my stuff and give up, sorry if that sounds bad but it's where I am right now.