What really quality model next

[Guest]

Thanks Steve for that information.

Interesting thing about the Spitfire is that Mitchell insisted that every rivet was countersunk which I think was the first time this had been achieved on aircraft & there were many difficulties to overcome to achieve it. It also made production more expensive & also lengthened the time to produce the Spitfire. It also made replacement of a damaged panel on the airfield virtually impossible whereas the hurricane was just stuck together by the airfitters on the the airfield. Must also make it impossible to achieve on a plastic model whereas a raised rivet is not.

Laurie

[Vaughan]

Hi there Laurie

Thanks for the link have just placed an order so should be with me shortly, just got to break the news to the wife another model!!!

On the plus side I do have all the Modelair paints I need.

Vaughan

[stona]

Thanks Steve for that information.Interesting thing about the Spitfire is that Mitchell insisted that every rivet was countersunk which I think was the first time this had been achieved on aircraft & there were many difficulties to overcome to achieve it.

Laurie

Mitchell may have intended that and,for all I know the prototype may have been built that way but I'm pretty sure that production Spitfires weren't. Flush rivetting was used in areas where it was deemed essential for performance but in other areas where the performance penalty was more negligible flush rivetting was not used. I'm not very knowledgeable about Spitfire construction but it should be possible to find out how the various marks were constructed fairly easily. I think I read somewhere that later Marks were indeed flush rivetted throughout but I'm not sure.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Rivetting stuff. This info from various sources gives some light on the situation Steve.

The matter of manufacturing brought up another question. K5054 had been put together entirely with flush riveting, so that the surface was completely smooth. This method was more expensive than dome-headed rivets, however. To test where the cheaper rivets could be used without significant losses in performance, the company glued split peas to the flush rivets in various locations, then tested the resulting change in speed. As a result of these tests, rounded rivets were used “in fore and aft rows attaching the fuselage plates.”

.No detail was too small to consider, even the

humble rivet. Mitchell had designed an absolutely smooth surface for

the metal skin of his fighter. This meant that every single rivet hole

had to be countersunk to take the flat-headed flush rivets. But were

they all essential? With tens of thousands of holes to make on every

single aircraft, much time and labour (and cost) could be avoided

during production by the use of conventional dome-headed rivets. To

establish what drag would be created by domed heads, the design

team went out shopping. Several bags of dried split-peas were bought

from a local grocer and one was glued to the head of every single rivet,

creating the effect of a domed head. Flight testing revealed a loss of 22

mph on the top speed. By progressively scraping off row after row of

peas, the lost speed was regained, while the critical areas that needed

flush riveting were identified: the rest could stay dome-headed.

According to an old MAP publication I own, from MK XII onward all rivets were of the flush type. Wing leading edge rivets back to the rear of the "D" section were also filled and sanded smooth as this area was found to have a pronounced effect on top speed.

Generally speaking, flush rivets were progressivly introduced with each subsequent mark of Spitfire. The MK IX is a difficult one as some were actually conversions of MK V Spitfires. All the pictures I have of current restorations appear to indicate flush riveting as far aft as the rear glazing. The remainder of the fuselage uses domed rivets. It's also interesting to note that the bottom horizontal stabilizer skins were attached with wood screws.

Apart from the fuselage, from the cockpit aft, which had domed rivets, the entire airframe was flush rivetted, and, if a rivet has a diameter of 1/4" or 6.35mm (and some were less) this equates to .0005" or .13mm in 1/48, and the domed height is even less. Put a couple of coats of paint over them, and they're gone, so why make all that effort? The same thing applies to the overlapping panels (and they did.) By the time you bring it down to scale thickness, it's thinner than tissue paper.

[stona]

Excellent stuff,thanks for that. My old memory isn't as bad as I thought it was!

Cheers

Steve