Price and quality.....

[BarryW]

I have been thinking while working on my 1/32 Revell 190.

I have posted elsewhere about value Vs price.

There is definitely a place for low price kits as are provided by companies like Airfix, Revell and Italeri. These kits offer a good entry point to attract new people to the hobby and, of course, not everyone can or want to fork out £100 for a model.

My builds are predominantly 1/32 scale aircraft of course and this scale is dominated by middle and high end producers like Tamiya, ZM, HKModels, Trumpeter and Hobbyboss.

Revell do, of course produce kits in this scale, at a much lower price point. That is certainly not a bad thing at all but it is not really fair to compare these low cost kits with these high and mid-range producers. I have dealt with more sink marks and I am doing more filling and sanding on this one kit than I did in all my precious 10 builds combined (Tamiya, HKModels and Trumpeter).

Does it make sense for Revell to put themselves against these other brands?

After all they only win on price and it is not all about the price of a kit.

Would it not make sense for Revell to up their game and produce a ‘Premium Range’ of 1/32 aircraft to take on the Tamiya and Trumpeters on quality as well?

They are certainly able to produce good kits but just need to adapt to prioritising quality over price to provide such a range. Better plastic, tighter tolerances, better packaging, more thought to thebuild processes, improved instructions, better sprue lay-outs. Really just small adjustments to all of the elements that go into producing a kit and they could really produce some great kits.

A Premium Range, with different and distinct packaging and without abandoning their traditional market will, I am sure, deepen their market penetration and broaden their appeal

I think Airfix could do the same. It would be easier in a way, for them because they are not in the 1/32 scale aircraft market. A very distinctive 1/32 range from them might have even greater impact than it would for Revell.

Just a few thoughts!!!!

[jameshoughton1997!!!!]

Id say yes but at the same time no be aise they dont have to they get enough sales from there entry level kits and the price point for many is the drawing point take a child for example that loves aircraft and they see a 1/32 mossi they arnt going to complete it to its best that it could so forking out 169 for the tamiya one isnt realistic but £18 for the revell one its a bo brainer so i think they sell that many of them that it really dosent matter to them

[stillp]

Why would they want to move into a more competitive market sector Barry?

Pete

[BarryW]

Id say yes but at the same time no be aise they dont have to they get enough sales from there entry level kits and the price point for many is the drawing point take a child for example that loves aircraft and they see a 1/32 mossi they arnt going to complete it to its best that it could so forking out 169 for the tamiya one isnt realistic but £18 for the revell one its a bo brainer so i think they sell that many of them that it really dosent matter to them

I quite agree that they should not abandon entry level kits. I am talking about complementing these offerings with a different range. Children and those who just ‘dip in’ to the hobby certainly need decent low priced kits and it is good to have some in 1/32. But most dedicated 1/32 builders are generally older, more financially established and are looking for more than price. This is why there are so many releases in 1/32 coming out carrying a significant price tag. The HKM Lanc could be in the region of £250 for instance. We can certainly expect a lot more releases at around the £200 price point. Even Hobbyboss are bringing out a 1/32 B24 and I am sure you won’t get much change from £200 if any. Then look at the aftermarket....

There is certainly an increasing demand for high end quality kits and Revell and Airfix should see if they can get a share.

[PaulTRose]

well if they can sell 4 of their 25 quid kits for every one of your prefered 100 quid ones i would say they are on to a winner......they are selling more kits and getting their name out there and getting repeat business further down the line....they are also going to pay off their tooling and r&d costs quicker, and therefore make a profit quicker

why price them selves out of the game by going up against the big boys when they are happily selling loads at the cheaper end?

you need to remember that for every one of you, who can afford to spend on one kit what i spend on my my entire hobby for a year there are a few hundred people who are happily doing it on the cheap (like me) and they are the bread and butter on the entire industry when it comes to manufacturing

[jameshoughton1997!!!!]

Exactley and some of them with a little work can be built into something thats on par with the big boys plus the kit and aftermarket to make it a good kit often costs alot less still than the big bous

[Ian M]

Personally I think the new tooled Revell 1/32 aircraft are both very well priced and very good toolings yes they could use a bit more time into the instructions and packaging.
Fit issues are nowhere near as bad as older kits, and let's face it, even some of the Über kits have issues in that area.
Revell have also their Gold series... Lots of extras, wood decks in ships, PE and resin parts too. But still the same plastic.

[BarryW]

Why would they want to move into a more competitive market sector Barry?

Pete

It is a reflection of demand. There is no doubt that 1/32 is the fastest growing scale and is where the real innovation is happening. Just look at the releases, B17, Lanc, B24..... incredibly ambitious. Only a few years ago no-one would have dreamed of these kits being available.

Consider Airfix. They recently released a decent BP Defiant in 1/48. It would be easy to scale that to 1/32, refine some of the detail, improve the quality of the plastic, improve the packaging and perhaps include a mask set, maybe do a deal with Eduard and include some p.e. and maybe some resin. They would sell big...... and there would be no competition. What about their Walrus too.....

Companies like Revell and Airfix should be getting a slice of this market at the quality end.

[BarryW]

well if they can sell 4 of their 25 quid kits for every one of your prefered 100 quid ones i would say they are on to a winner......they are selling more kits and getting their name out there and getting repeat business further down the line....they are also going to pay off their tooling and r&d costs quicker, and therefore make a profit quicker

why price them selves out of the game by going up against the big boys when they are happily selling loads at the cheaper end?

you need to remember that for every one of you, who can afford to spend on one kit what i spend on my my entire hobby for a year there are a few hundred people who are happily doing it on the cheap (like me) and they are the bread and butter on the entire industry when it comes to manufacturing

It is a different market and the economics do not work the way you suggest.

I am not saying abandon the cheap end. These are needed but there is a massive demand at the top end that these companies are not satisfying.

You prefer quantity over quality, fair enough but there are loads of people who want quality first. That is the only explanation for the release and success of kits like the Tamiya 1/32 Mossie at £138 or the HKM B17 at £250. People then go out and spend the same again on aftermarket. More and more kits in the £100 plus bracket are better by releases and Revell and Airfix should be in the market at that end.

If you can afford to buy 4 x £25 kits then you can afford to buy 1 x £100 if you choose to. If you have not done it try it, the quality of the build experience is worth it. If at the end of it you prefer to build high volume instead of being more selective then that’s fine. There is a market for both. N

[PaulTRose]

It is a different market and the economics do not work the way you suggest.

I am not saying abandon the cheap end. These are needed but there is a massive demand at the top end that these companies are not satisfying.

You prefer quantity over quality, fair enough but there are loads of people who want quality first. That is the only explanation for the release and success of kits like the Tamiya 1/32 Mossie at £138 or the HKM B17 at £250. People then go out and spend the same again on aftermarket. More and more kits in the £100 plus bracket are better by releases and Revell and Airfix should be in the market at that end.

If you can afford to buy 4 x £25 kits then you can afford to buy 1 x £100 if you choose to. If you have not done it try it, the quality of the build experience is worth it. If at the end of it you prefer to build high volume instead of being more selective then that’s fine. There is a market for both. N

but i dont think you understand how model companies work.......how can they afford to r&d, tool up and market a 'high quality' large scale kit without ignoring their base market/product?....in this day and age they cant afford to do both.....or take the financial risk of it going pear shaped

as for 'quantity over quality'......it comes down to your interpretation of quality......i build mainly armour and bikes and what i can get for 25 quid is perfectly acceptable to me.....if you can afford to buy uber kits then of course you will look down on 'cheap' kits as being inferior

and no, i could never bring myself to spend that sort of money on a single kit (and then be expected to spend a small fortune on extras) and then live with cocking it up

but like it has been said before its the build process giving satisfaction thats more important, ive had most satisfaction from scratch building stuff from junk ive rescued from the bin and has cost me nothing, from actually designing something and problem solving glitches along the way rather than doing a shake n bake kit

[BarryW]

but i dont think you understand how model companies work.......how can they afford to r&d, tool up and market a 'high quality' large scale kit without ignoring their base market/product?....in this day and age they cant afford to do both.....or take the financial risk of it going pear shaped

as for 'quantity over quality'......it comes down to your interpretation of quality......i build mainly armour and bikes and what i can get for 25 quid is perfectly acceptable to me.....if you can afford to buy uber kits then of course you will look down on 'cheap' kits as being inferior

and no, i could never bring myself to spend that sort of money on a single kit (and then be expected to spend a small fortune on extras) and then live with cocking it up

but like it has been said before its the build process giving satisfaction thats more important, ive had most satisfaction from scratch building stuff from junk ive rescued from the bin and has cost me nothing, from actually designing something and problem solving glitches along the way rather than doing a shake n bake kit

Fair enough but no-one is saying they should ignore their base but to open a new line of kits to widen their appeal and compete for the quality end of the spectrum.

[BarryW]

Exactley and some of them with a little work can be built into something thats on par with the big boys plus the kit and aftermarket to make it a good kit often costs alot less still than the big bous

I think that you are not addressing the point I made. yes, I agree 'with work' cheap kits can be built up to excellent models. We still need cheap, they have a role and I do hope that both Revell and Airfix keep producing them. I am suggesting a new line of premium kits that can compete at the top end of the market for quality rather than price.

I would rather spend more cash of a more refined kit with which you dont have to spend time filling endless sink holes, time searching across all the sprues for parts, time dealing with shapeless blobs of plastic, time removing flash, all of that I have found on my new tool FW 190 from Revell that was almost entirely absent from the Tamiya and Trumpeter kits.

[BarryW]

Personally I think the new tooled Revell 1/32 aircraft are both very well priced and very good toolings yes they could use a bit more time into the instructions and packaging.
Fit issues are nowhere near as bad as older kits, and let's face it, even some of the Über kits have issues in that area.
Revell have also their Gold series... Lots of extras, wood decks in ships, PE and resin parts too. But still the same plastic.

I agree Ian. The Revell new tools are a lot better than they used to be and Airfix have improved even more but, nevertheless they have a long way to go to really compete for quality. Not being into ships I was not aware of that.. but for me the issue is with their plastic itself, a similar approach with 1/32 aircraft but with all-together better tooling, better plastic and better packaging.

Yes the expensive kits do have issues, no kit lacks issues, but the qualitative difference between the Tammy 1/32 Corsair (for instance) and the Revell FW190 is massive and is felt in every aspect of the build. It really does demonstrate very starkly the difference in approach and I just feel Revell and Airfix have the skill set to provide a premium line that can compete.

[BarryW]

One more general comment....

People will buy a cheap kit such as the Revell 1/32 FW190 and will then go out and buy a whole load of aftermarket stuff. If I were to build another the minimum I would buy are seatbelts, metal u/c legs and metal cannons the latter two items only because the plastic is so prone to breakages lacking any kind of strength . Many people, unlike me, who want to display the engine will get a resin engine, essential in my view. Other will get p.e. interior and exterior sets etc. They will end up spending more than they would on a high end kit. While am stuff is there for the high end the kits themselves are mostly good enough not to really need it. The a.m. I got for the Tammy Mr VIII Spit was very much gilding the lilly and the Mk XVI on which I only added am decals and seatbelts looks just as good.

[stillp]

It is a reflection of demand. There is no doubt that 1/32 is the fastest growing scale and is where the real innovation is happening.

In the 'real world', supercars are among the fastest growing automotive sectors. Does that mean that for example Ford should develop and launch a £250k supercar, or do you think they're happy to be a mass market supplier with lower per-unit costs?

Pete