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Buying models unseen - a salutary tale

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  • Glider Guider
    • Oct 2004
    • 88

    #1

    Buying models unseen - a salutary tale

    Last weekend I bought a Flair Piper Cub off of Ebay. From the photos it looked fine and I intended to take out the Super Tigre GS 45 and use the aircraft to run in a Saito 45 I also bought recently on Ebay.

    They say that the camera never lies, but when I collected the Cub it was in a disastrous condition and totally unsuitable for flight.

    Some of the main serious faults that are obvious without removing the covering are:
    • Fin not glued in place it just pulled out
    • Hinges not pinned, they also just pull out
    • Engine mounted under the hardwood bearers thus changing the thrust line and a few degrees of left thrust added to endure a spectacular crash on its first (and likely last) flight
    • Tailplane cracked across its width at the join with the fuselage

    Poor building features were:
    • Engine fixed with brass nuts and bolts – up to 6 nuts per bolt, and one had not been tightened
    • The bolts are a bit too large to fit through the holes in the engine mounting lug, so what do you do, get the correct sized bolt – of course not, you drill the holes out to fit the bolt, what else!
    • One bolt hole drilled in the wrong place, so what do you do to rectify this – obvious, you file out the offending hole in the engine mounting lug!
    • You need to fit a tailskid but how do you do it? Simple, hold it in place with a slack handful of ¼”staples, how else!

    Some photos to illustrate why you have to be very carefull buying from a photo can be found here

    This shows the pitfalls of buying a model through any method where you buy before seeing the model, not just Ebay which I use a lot to buy and sell and find very useful.

    Am I disappointed? Yes in one way as I’d hoped to have the Cub in the air pretty much straight the way. However I have an aircraft that will be fine when it has had a bit of TLC and a recover, an unrun engine, a GWS Receiver, 4 unused Hitec servos, an unused Ripmax Turbex 2 starter, three brand new Graupner props and an unused Ripmax Glow Stick all for £65 which is, I think, a bargain. Apart from the airframe it’s all going on Ebay this weekend so if it was a good price time will tell.

    The warning is that if a novice bought it they could conceivable try to fly it in the state it was in, it would surely have been a very short flight but with the potential to due a lot of damage both physical and to the reputation of aeromodelling. So the motto here, in legalese, is “Caveat emptor” or “let the buyer beware”.
  • Greyhead
    • Oct 2004
    • 581

    #2
    Well David, that’s joys of ebay, or as they “you win some and you loose some”!!

    But I take your point about a novice trying to actually fly the thing, it could easily have killed some one.

    Comment

    • Guest

      #3
      With Ebay you have to remember that there is normally a reason people are selling something in the first place!

      I'd always be a little weary of items which seem to be really good value or "too good to be true"

      Saying that though with a bit of time and effort I'm sure you'll get the cub airworthy and it wasn't a huge outlay.

      It made me laugh the other week, I was looking for a Laptop with a faulty or broken screen as I've got a laptop with a broken motherboard, one particular item was described as broken. On this occassion though they had been honest about the exact fault:

      "Laptop has been run over by a long wheelbase transit van, the sceen is broken but the case appears ok, I tried to switch it on but it wouldn't boot up..."

      Comment

      • Glider Guider
        • Oct 2004
        • 88

        #4
        I've started work on the fuselage. The tail skid isn't held on by staples after all it is held in place by lacing nylon cord and smothering it with cyano. Now why didn't I think of that?

        Comment

        • Guest

          #5
          Buying other peoples models is always an interesting experience!!!

          Comment

          • Glider Guider
            • Oct 2004
            • 88

            #6
            As a bit of "before and after" here are the pictures of the Super Tigre GS 45 after a bit of cleaning http://homepage.ntlworld.com/davidwr...r_Tigre_GS_45/

            Comment

            • wonwinglo
              • Apr 2004
              • 5410

              #7
              Just out of interest David,what did you use to clean up that engine ? it seems to work very well,burnt on castor can be a real pain to remove properly,sometimes even paint stripper will not shift the gunge and goop.

              Originally posted by \
              As a bit of "before and after" here are the pictures of the Super Tigre GS 45 after a bit of cleaning http://homepage.ntlworld.com/davidwr...r_Tigre_GS_45/

              Comment

              • Guest

                #8
                i used nitromors to clean the engine in my plane and the engine in my stadium truck

                worked good

                Comment

                • Glider Guider
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 88

                  #9
                  The method I use to clean engines is to drop them into a slow cooker filled with anti-freeze. For a lightly soiled engine a few hours are enough but overnight is required for a more heavily soiled engine.

                  It does change the colour of anodising and it will remove the blue paint from an OS LA series engine so it is best not to use it with this type of engine.

                  I position the crankshaft so the inlet and exhaust ports are closed, this prevents the antifreeze getting into the crankcase but I always give the engine a good spray with WD40 and run the engine as quickly as possible.

                  Someone once told me to use Ariel Bio washing powder, if I remember correctly, boiled in a pan, this cleaned the burnt on crud but also attacked the castings so I wouldn’t recommend it.

                  Comment

                  • Glider Guider
                    • Oct 2004
                    • 88

                    #10
                    What I thought would be a quick refit turned into a much longer affair. The old covering was stripped off and the airframe inspected and re-glued/strengthened where necessary.

                    Originally the wing was held on with elastic bands but I modified it to fit with pegs at the front and bolts to the rear which is a lot sturdier.

                    It was then covered in Solartex and given a couple of coats of Japlac.

                    Although not required I made a set of struts from 5mm ali tubing from B&Q, eds from ali sheet fixed to the tubing with Isopon body filler and cross struts from brass tubing. A Cub without struts looks a bit undressed.

                    The fuselage lettering was cut from Solartrim and the Cub Club France logo was printed on sticky back plastic sheet from Overlander finished with a coat of clear car lacquer to fuel and water proof it.

                    It was only completed yesterday and has yet to fly. My next job will be to complete the Auster.

                    Looking at the photos I've just realised that I've fitted the switch to the wrong side!

                    A few photos are shown below.

                    Comment

                    • Guest

                      #11
                      Lovely looking model now David. I hope the whole excercise was still worth it for you and you don't feel like you wasted your money on the Ebay sale.

                      Comment

                      • Greyhead
                        • Oct 2004
                        • 581

                        #12
                        Looking very nice now, it’s amazing what a difference a re-cover makes. The Japlac paint has made a really good finish, where did you get the idea to use that particular paint? I’ve not heard of it for years! The Piper Club bear adds the finishing touch.

                        Just out of interest I notice that you’ve added rib tapes but not “stitching”, do the French stick the fabric to the ribs as per the Americans?

                        Comment

                        • Glider Guider
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 88

                          #13
                          The idea of using Japlac was from a team racer who always it for his models as it goes on well and is fuel proof. As to the lack of stiching on the model it is only semi scale so it wasn't worth the time to go into a lot of detail. At my club I doubt anyone will notice the rib tapes let alone the missing stiching.

                          With the Auster which is more a scale model than the Cub, it has rib tapes but the stiching was just too much of a job I'm afraid.

                          Comment

                          • Glider Guider
                            • Oct 2004
                            • 88

                            #14
                            The Cub has now been test flown and was very exciting - as someone at the club commented "is adrenaline sticky". On take off it either nosed straight over which was very difficult to catch on the elevator, but once caught it would go into a ground loop.

                            Once I got it up it climbed away nicely but then started to disappear in a bit of mist so I levelled out and throttled back at which point the Cub tip stalled and headed for terra firma in a spiral dive, with the visibility a bit compromised my instincts took over and I was able to recover before it hit the ground and the rest of the flight was not bad but it didn’t want to turn left although right turns were fine. On landing even though it was a ‘greaser’ as soon as the wheels touched it nosed over, the grass was very wet but that shouldn’t have happened.

                            The nosing over has been improved, but not completely cured, by moving the receiver and battery from their under tank position to the rear of the cabin, the turning is now fine after mixing in a bit of rudder with the aileron. The ground looping on take off and landing is still under development, reducing the rudder through makes it easier to control but I’ve read that putting 3º of toe-in is a help in preventing the model ground looping. I've added this but have yet to test it due to poor weather.

                            Once airborne the model is a delight to fly even at low speeds.

                            The wing struts were made from 5mm diameter aluminium tubing from B&Q with duralumin ends.



                            Unfortunately the fuselage end fixing sheared on the last flight and I’ve now replaced the duralumin with steel.

                            Comment

                            • Greyhead
                              • Oct 2004
                              • 581

                              #15
                              Nosing over on take off and / or landing is all part of the “fun” with most scale tail draggers; unfortunately we have to use full scale grass which can be the equivalent of a full size aircraft using a runway sown with mowing grass, I think that would cause them a few problems.

                              Ground looping is also a common problem; I’ve resorted to using a heading hold gyro on my Parnall Elf, which is effective but a lot more expensive than 3º toe in. I’ll be very interested to see how well it works.

                              Flying a scale model doesn’t generally involve “throwing” the model around the sky in great abandon at full throttle but to do it correctly takes skill and practice, stick at it and you’ll soon be flying your Cub in true scale fashion and then you’ll appreciate what scale modelling is all about. You might have to take a bit of stick from the younger “top guns” in the club for as they see it “just stooging around the sky”, but you’ll know better.

                              I like the end fittings on the wing struts, have you used aluminium weld? I saw some being demonstrated at this years Nats. and was very impressed; so much so I was nearly tempted to part with some of the folding stuff, but I resisted in the end!

                              Comment

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