Mosquito ID - Lonesome Polecat conundrum - problem solved, I think!

[adt70hk]

Hi all

Firstly apologies for not being around much recently but I've not had much time for forum or modelling in the past few weeks and secondly apologies if this is not the right place for this post!

To get to the point does anyone have a copy of Osprey's "Mosquito Aces of World War 2" by Andrew Thomas? If so can you make out the serial number of 409 RCAF Mossie KP-R pictured on Page 39? (Extract below).

I ask because I'm considering marking up the Mossie I bought for my "Hunters and Hunted" builds (LINK) as this plane but I have the following conundrum:

• Every model and decal set I have seen of it built (including the decal set I have) states it is Mossie "Lonesome Polecat", serial number HK425.
• BUT every written source I have come across in print (an Osprey book I personally have) and several seemingly detailed and well researched online articles (and I have found a lot) state the squadron/plane is is KP-D not KP-R. Although one does say it is R but then adds it sometimes called out as D.
• Additionally, according to at least one online source I found, the serial number of KP-R was HK415.
• To add to the mix, the Osprey book I have (Mosquito Fighter/Fighter Bomber Units of WW2) has a picture of a crew in front of said plane and just under the wing you can make out the bottom of the aircraft ID letter in front of the roundel - and it's clearly not a 'D'. It does though do a reasonable job of looking like the bottom of a WW2 RAF 'R'. (Photo below)

It has occurred to me that the crew might have changed planes at some point during the war and/or that HK425 change ID's from 'D' to 'R' for some reason but my research tells me HK425 survived intact to VE day and beyond, so it's not because it was shot down or written off in an accident.

All and any help gratefully received as I have spent far, far too much on this puzzle!! :crying:

All the best.

Andrew

PS I think I have become the one thing I promised not to do when I came back to the hobby - a rivet counter!! :anguished::tired: I can only apologise..........

------------------------------------------------

Extract for reference purposes from Google Books
Mosquito Aces of World War 2
By Andrew Thomas
Page 39
What's the serial number???



Extract for reference purposes
Mosquito Fighter/Fighter Bomber Units of WW2
by Martin Bowman
Definitely not the bottom of a D. Is it the bottom of an R?

[ATTACH]372808[/ATTACH]

[adt70hk]

All

To add to the confusion, I've just noticed that on the bottom of pg 54 'Mosquito Fighter/Fighter Bomber Units of WW2", there is a picture of KP-R with the serial number clearly visible as HK415 dated November '44 and it doesn't say the plane is Lonesome Polecat' even though the photo clearly shows that name with what looks like an 'R'.

I give up..................

ATB

Andrew

PS According to the caption on this particular photo one of the above crew took this and a number of other pictures in the book.

[adt70hk]

Oh and by the way HK415 was destroyed in flying accident in January '45. So was D re-marked as R after that.....????

[adt70hk]

Hi all

So, I think I have got to the bottom of this one at last but if anyone spots a flaw in my thinking (or genuinely knows better) then please let me know.

You remember that whilst there is no doubt an RCAF 409 Sqn Mossie called 'Lonesome Polecat' existed, there was seemingly conflicting information about the plane ID letter, and even possibly serial number. As I intend to make a specific plane, I didn't want to get it wrong.

The issues went something like this:
• All written online material had the serial number of HK425, with Sqn/plane ID of KP-D. Sources were well researched and included actual wartime squadron records and the de-Havilland museum.
• However, all decals I could find had the combination HK425 KP-R, including the set I have. Are all decal sets therefore wrong?
• Most but not all written material in books (normally accompanying a photo) had the combination HK425 KP-D. One has KP-R. Not helpful!
• All written online material had the serial number of another Mossie on the squadron as HK415, with Sqn/plane ID of KP-R (same as HK425). Again, sources were well researched and included the actual wartime squadron records and the de-Havilland museum.
• A photo of HK415 KP-R exists but it doesn't a name on the aircraft either way. Not helpful.
• None of the five different photos of the plane in the books I personally have, definitively solved the problem. Four were taken by a regular pilot of the aircraft, F/O Ross H Finlayson, a fifth is actually of F/O Finlayson (source RCAF). However, it was piecing these together plus other information I had gathered that solved the problem.

What also helped was that records show that HK425 survived the war. However, multiple sources state HK415 was lost in a take-off accident on 18/01/1945.

It occurred to me that both HK415 and HK425 may have been called Lonesome Polecat. Whilst I cannot rule this out definitively, none of the evidence I have found supports that fact and would actually seem to contradict it.

Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that on joining the 409 Sqn RCAF HK425 was assigned the ID 'D' ie. KP-D as the records clearly show. However, sometime the loss of HK415 it was reassigned the ID letter 'R' i.e. KP-R. Full 'working out' for this decision is below.

In short I can use the decals I have!!!

However, before you pick my reasoning apart, why the name Lonesome Polecat? Read on:

"The nose art was inspired by a drunken Indian character from a very popular comic strip of the day, Finlayson having added the name to the aircraft and then asked his parents to send him a copy of the comic form Canada for copying. However, before the publication arrived, one of his groundcrew painted the skunk on the nose ahead of the titling, and is was considered to be so well done that Finlayson left it on." (Ross Finlayson)
“Mosquito Menacing the Reich” by Martin Bowman

ATB

Andrew

PS I don't consider myself a rivet counter but I couldn't let this one go!

PPS All photos are accompanied by the sources and are for reference purposes only.

------------------------------------------------------------------

1) HK415 – KP-R – Lille area Nov. 1944. (Ross Finlayson)
“Mosquito Fighter/Fighter-Bomber Units of World War Two” by Martin Bowman
Squadron records confirm that the squadron was in this area at the time. (http:tongue-out3:/www.allwxfighters.ca/409squadron.htm)





2) HK425 – Lonesome Polecat – no squadron code or plane ID visible – Twente, Holland (Ross Finlayson)
“Mosquito Fighter/Fighter-Bomber Units of World War Two” by Martin Bowman
“Mosquito Menacing the Reich” by Martin Bowman
Squadron records confirm that it was in this area at the time (http:tongue-out3:/www.allwxfighters.ca/409squadron.htm)









3) HK425 – KP-D – no name. (Ross Finlayson)
“Mosquito Menacing the Reich” by Martin Bowman
Proof that HK425 was indeed assigned the designation KP-D. Date and location unknown.





4) HK4?? – KP-R – No name – (Ross Finlayson)
“Mosquito Aces of Word War 2” by Andrew Thomas
“Scale Aircraft Modelling: Combat Colours no. 6” by Paul Lucas
Both sources I have in the caption name state this is HK425. However, whilst I can make out the “HK4”, and just about the “5” (I think) using the optivisor and blown up pictures I took, I cannot make out the middle digit. But the gap between 4 and 5 appears to too big for a “1”. One photo caption I have states this was taken in Spring ’45 i.e. after HK415 was lost.





5) Lonesome Polecat – Serial number and designation unknown. (RCAF)
“Mosquito Fighter/Fighter-Bomber Units of World War Two” by Martin Bowman
Flying Officers Al Webster and Ross Finlayson in front of Lonesome Polecat (location and date unknown).

This is the picture that clinches it for me. Only the name and skunk are fully visible. They and appear to match the exact size and location as shown in photo 2, ruling out HK415 also being called Lonesome Polecat. You will see that just over Finlayson’s left arm and just under the wing you can make out the bottom of the aircraft ID letter, in front of the roundel. It is clearly not a 'D'. It does though do a remarkably good job of looking like the bottom of a WW2 RAF 'R'.

Ergo, HK 425 was both KP-D and KP-R during it’s time at the squadron!! At least I think so!!

[Gary MacKenzie]

found this @ www.rwrwalker.ca/RAF_owned_HK100.html

and this @ www.valiant-wings.co.uk/ekmps/shops/valiantwings/resources/Other/am10-downloadablecontent-v1.0.pdf

and this @ Osprey Combat Aircraft, no 9, page 44.

[Guest]

It’s not my area of interest, but I can certainly appreciate good research when I see it

[adt70hk]

found this @ www.rwrwalker.ca/RAF_owned_HK100.html

and this @ www.valiant-wings.co.uk/ekmps/shops/valiantwings/resources/Other/am10-downloadablecontent-v1.0.pdf

and this @ Osprey Combat Aircraft, no 9, page 44.[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1123409[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]n1123410[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1123411[/ATTACH]

Hi Gary

Thanks for stopping by.

I found the website during my research and as you'll have seen it sometimes says the squadron/plane ID is given as KP-R.

I also have the Osprey book too. Photo 5 above is also from the same book and of the pilot, who took all the other photos of the aircraft I have come across, and it's one that gives me confidence HK425 was at some point marked KP-R.

Thanks again for taking the time to stop by!

ATB

Andrew

[adt70hk]

It’s not my area of interest, but I can certainly appreciate good research when I see it :smiling3:

HI Jakko

Thanks for taking the time to stop by and the compliment.

I'd like to think I'm not a rivet counter - after all I like quick build kits - but at the same time I don't like discrepancies and having so many apparently conflicting sets of info was something I couldn't let go, as sad as that is.

Thanks again.

Andrew