Battle of Britain diary

[minitnkr]

I agree, an outstanding effort & a great pleasure to have read. It was like reading a brief of the previous day/nights' action. Very well done Steve. PaulE

[colin m]

When I suggested a Battle of Britain diary, I imagined various people chipping in with a bit of information here and there, I would have been happy with that. Many people did and thank you to all who contributed. But then Steve picked up the baton, and look what happened.
Steve's account of the Battle was more than I could ever of hoped for. It has been an amazing read, and of course an amazing effort by Steve. I can't begin to guess how many hours of work Steve has put into this fantastic piece of work.
So to Steve, the unofficial Scale-Model Forum's, Battle of Britain Chief archivist and Historian, I offer my most sincere thanks for all your hard work.

[adt70hk]

When I suggested a Battle of Britain diary, I imagined various people chipping in with a bit of information here and there, I would have been happy with that. Many people did and thank you to all who contributed. But then Steve picked up the baton, and look what happened.
Steve's account of the Battle was more than I could ever of hoped for. It has been an amazing read, and of course an amazing effort by Steve. I can't begin to guess how many hours of work Steve has put into this fantastic piece of work.
So to Steve, the unofficial Scale-Model Forum's, Battle of Britain Chief archivist and Historian, I offer my most sincere thanks for all your hard work.

Well said Colin.

[stona]

Battle of Britain Day 2023
I'm going to write a brief addendum or maybe appendix to this thread, addressing the issue of overclaiming. This is not in any way having a go at the pilots (on all sides) who made erroneous claims. The vast majority were made in good faith and the errors simply reflect the confusion of air to air combat.

Battle of Britain Day.

'185 Destroyed', trumpeted in headlines and on the wireless. 185, a number that became etched into British consciousness.

Actually the next day's newspapers said 175. The War Cabinet were told on the 16th that the numbers were 186 destroyed, 16 probable and 72 damaged. The Duxford Wing alone claimed an improbable 105 destroyed, 40 probable, 8 damaged (figures that Dowding balked at).

Then in 1945, German documents fell into Allied hands. These included an incomplete set of the 'Flugzeug Unfalle und Verluste bei den Verbanden' (Aircraft casualties and losses in units) drawn up by the Ob.d.L Genst., Gen.Qu. Abt.6 covering the period to the end of 1943. The British now had a seemingly accurate report of actual Luftwaffe losses for the Battle of Britain period and it made for some uncomfortable reading. The first thing they did was interrogate various German officers, including Oberstleutnant Werner Henning of Abteilung 6, Gruppe V, who had actually signed some of the documents in 1943 to establish exactly what the figures were and how they were compiled. The German officers all insisted on their accuracy. Two claimed that they were better than 99% accurate. Henning said that they were audited 'like a bank account'.

Now the British had to decide how many German aircraft they had really destroyed. They included all aircraft that the Germans had listed as 60% damaged or more, since the interrogations confirmed that these were invariably written off and salvaged. The British Air Historical Branch examined the period July 10th to October 31st 1940 and came up with its definitive figure for German losses:

1,733 destroyed and 607 damaged.

These compare with Air Intelligence report A.D.I. (K) 387B/1945 figures compiled from the same sources:

1,729 destroyed and 643 damaged.

The difference is minimal and does have an explanation - but not here!

Now the Air Ministry had a problem. Fighter Command had claimed 2,637 enemy aircraft destroyed, 863 probably destroyed and 1,156 damaged for this period. It was also concerned that the real figures would leak out, particularly because the Americans were in possession of the same documents. In the end it was decided that we had to come clean and a statement was made 'On German Air Losses In The Battle Of Britain'. It even included the most extreme examples from some of the most frantic days of fighting.

"As extreme examples, on 15th August 1940 when we claimed 181 aircraft destroyed, the actual German losses according to the best information now available were nearer 80. On 15th September their losses were 51 against a claim of 185, and on 27th September 55 against a claim of 133."

This best information now available was produced graphically as part of the Air Intelligence report I mentioned above and makes an easy way to see the disparity. It is notable that though there is consistent overclaiming the number of actual losses generally follows the number of claims. This is confirmation of the intensity of combat on various days and the honesty of the claims, even if they were incorrect. More claims were made when more losses had in fact been inflicted, there were just too many claims.




So there you go, a very brief analysis of the problem of overclaiming that confronted all combatant air forces, which I hope some will find of interest.

[adt70hk]

Battle of Britain Day 2023
I'm going to write a brief addendum or maybe appendix to this thread, addressing the issue of overclaiming. This is not in any way having a go at the pilots (on all sides) who made erroneous claims. The vast majority were made in good faith and the errors simply reflect the confusion of air to air combat.

Battle of Britain Day.

'185 Destroyed', trumpeted in headlines and on the wireless. 185, a number that became etched into British consciousness.

Actually the next day's newspapers said 175. The War Cabinet were told on the 16th that the numbers were 186 destroyed, 16 probable and 72 damaged. The Duxford Wing alone claimed an improbable 105 destroyed, 40 probable, 8 damaged (figures that Dowding balked at).

Then in 1945, German documents fell into Allied hands. These included an incomplete set of the 'Flugzeug Unfalle und Verluste bei den Verbanden' (Aircraft casualties and losses in units) drawn up by the Ob.d.L Genst., Gen.Qu. Abt.6 covering the period to the end of 1943. The British now had a seemingly accurate report of actual Luftwaffe losses for the Battle of Britain period and it made for some uncomfortable reading. The first thing they did was interrogate various German officers, including Oberstleutnant Werner Henning of Abteilung 6, Gruppe V, who had actually signed some of the documents in 1943 to establish exactly what the figures were and how they were compiled. The German officers all insisted on their accuracy. Two claimed that they were better than 99% accurate. Henning said that they were audited 'like a bank account'.

Now the British had to decide how many German aircraft they had really destroyed. They included all aircraft that the Germans had listed as 60% damaged or more, since the interrogations confirmed that these were invariably written off and salvaged. The British Air Historical Branch examined the period July 10th to October 31st 1940 and came up with its definitive figure for German losses:

1,733 destroyed and 607 damaged.

These compare with Air Intelligence report A.D.I. (K) 387B/1945 figures compiled from the same sources:

1,729 destroyed and 643 damaged.

The difference is minimal and does have an explanation - but not here!

Now the Air Ministry had a problem. Fighter Command had claimed 2,637 enemy aircraft destroyed, 863 probably destroyed and 1,156 damaged for this period. It was also concerned that the real figures would leak out, particularly because the Americans were in possession of the same documents. In the end it was decided that we had to come clean and a statement was made 'On German Air Losses In The Battle Of Britain'. It even included the most extreme examples from some of the most frantic days of fighting.

"As extreme examples, on 15th August 1940 when we claimed 181 aircraft destroyed, the actual German losses according to the best information now available were nearer 80. On 15th September their losses were 51 against a claim of 185, and on 27th September 55 against a claim of 133."

This best information now available was produced graphically as part of the Air Intelligence report I mentioned above and makes an easy way to see the disparity. It is notable that though there is consistent overclaiming the number of actual losses generally follows the number of claims. This is confirmation of the intensity of combat on various days and the honesty of the claims, even if they were incorrect. More claims were made when more losses had in fact been inflicted, there were just too many claims.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1208789[/ATTACH]


So there you go, a very brief analysis of the problem of overclaiming that confronted all combatant air forces, which I hope some will find of interest.

Thanks as always Steve for another informative update!!

[stillp]

Thanks from me too Steve.
Pete

[Ian M]

Would it be OK with you colin m , and all you others, if I moved this little gold mine of info to the Aircraft chat section and pinned it?

[Tim Marlow]

Go for it Ian. This excellent account needs to be easily accessible.

[adt70hk]

Agreed!

[colin m]

Would it be OK with you colin m , and all you others, if I moved this little gold mine of info to the Aircraft chat section and pinned it?

Great work Steve, thank you. Ian, a good idea.