Finding the squadrons 'ID' letter of a plane

[prichrd1]

Thanks Paul, the pilot was Mr Cooney (came from Rhos Robin in Denbyshire

Small world, I used to travel to school through Rhosrobin in Denbighshire [It was then - later County of Clwyd - and now County of Wrexham!!]
on the way to school before Wrexham by-pass was built.

Flight Sargent Cooney is mentioned in one of the photographs that I have seen. He flew two aircraft both Hurricanes - L1984 which crashed just
after take off and P3879 in which he was shot down and sadly killed in [But you probably know all that].

Paul.
:smiling:

[GerryW]

Small world, I used to travel to school through Rhosrobin in Denbighshire [It was then - later County of Clwyd - and now County of Wrexham!!]
on the way to school before Wrexham by-pass was built.

Flight Sargent Cooney is mentioned in one of the photographs that I have seen. He flew two aircraft both Hurricanes - L1984 which crashed just
after take off and P3879 in which he was shot down and sadly killed in [But you probably know all that].

Paul.
:smiling:

Thanks Paul, sorry about spellings of the village etc. had moved rooms and left the paperwork near the bench & computer and was using my phone.
Didn't know about P3879. My wife did do a little bit of 'digging' into him on Ancestry.com, and found that he was married, but couldn't find if they had children. For a long time, we couldn't find Rhosrobin on the maps as we were looking for a village, didn't realise that Wrexham had swallowed it since the war, as we were visiting the area a few times at the time, and would have called in at the church/chapel/war memorial to see it (he is commemorated on the wall).

[prichrd1]

Don't worry about the spellings - it's a minor detail, I hear tourists here really having fun trying to pronounce Welsh place names !! :smiling::tongue-out3::tears-of-joy:
Be thankful that he didn't live in Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch .

Flt Sgt Cooney is also mentioned on the Battle of Britain London Monument:-

Memorial

Short bio and picture of the plaque near the bottom of the page.

As for the church plaque - Rhosrobin only has 22 names on it - from the First War :-

[IWM does not have a photograph of this memorial - so next time I'm passing I will try
to get one for them].

Plaque

Paul.
:smiling:

[stona]

The No 56 Squadron Intelligence Report covering Cooney's loss. It would have been compiled from the pilots' accounts and Combat Reports.

"On 29.7.40 aircraft of 56 Squadron left Rochford at about 07.10 hours, and on being told to orbit they encountered some e/a off Dover, the formation becoming separated in searching for them.
The leader (F/Lt Coghlan) saw about 6 Me 109s at 6/8,000 feet and 25/30 Me 109s at 12,000 feet, but they all disappeared when he went in to attack the smaller formation. Some Spitfires were engaging the e/a and he saw one Spitfire shoot down three e/a, one in flames, one emitting glycol and one emitting smoke. He saw all three fall into the sea.
Blue 1 (F/O Weaver) joined a dog-fight 10 miles east of Dover and set an Me 109 on fire. This was witnessed by Blue3 (Sgt Smythe) and Blue 2 (Sgt Hillwood) and is claimed as confirmed destroyed.
Red 2 (P/O Wicks) and Red 3 (P/O Moundson) saw dive bombers attacking Dover Harbour. The former went to attack them but encountered 12 Me 109s at 11,000 feet. He attacked two with no visible effect, but saw his fire exploding on both. Red 3 was attacked by an Me 109 and was hit in port wing but e/a then disappeared.
Blue 3 (Sgt Smythe) broke away on his own, his R/T message that there were e/a on his left not being received. He attacked an Me 109 which fled at sea level, and he broke off when all his ammunition was expended.
Red 4 (Sgt Cooney) is missing and feared to be dead. F/O Weaver saw a Hurricane attacked by an Me 109 and go down emitting white smoke. It is understood that Searchlight Post No. 22 and Leathercoats Signals saw an unidentified a/c emitting white smoke crash into the sea with two loud explosions. A boat went out but found only three large oil marks."

Cooney's casualty file repeats the same information only adding that no parachute descents were seen and that only one Hurricane aircraft had come down on land, at Manston, and that it was identified and not Cooney's. It led the authorities to the inescapable conclusion that Cooney had perished when his aircraft hit the sea not far from the Goodwin Sands lightship.

The relevant section of the 'A' Flight, 56 Squadron, ORB for the day of the accident. As useless as expected in your quest! There is nothing in the 'remarks' no mention that the aircraft was lost.

[GerryW]

Shame that all of the unnamed that fell can't have their stories told. :worried:

[GerryW]

The No 56 Squadron Intelligence Report covering Cooney's loss. It would have been compiled from the pilots' accounts and Combat Reports.

"On 29.7.40 aircraft of 56 Squadron left Rochford at about 07.10 hours, and on being told to orbit they encountered some e/a off Dover, the formation becoming separated in searching for them.
The leader (F/Lt Coghlan) saw about 6 Me 109s at 6/8,000 feet and 25/30 Me 109s at 12,000 feet, but they all disappeared when he went in to attack the smaller formation. Some Spitfires were engaging the e/a and he saw one Spitfire shoot down three e/a, one in flames, one emitting glycol and one emitting smoke. He saw all three fall into the sea.
Blue 1 (F/O Weaver) joined a dog-fight 10 miles east of Dover and set an Me 109 on fire. This was witnessed by Blue3 (Sgt Smythe) and Blue 2 (Sgt Hillwood) and is claimed as confirmed destroyed.
Red 2 (P/O Wicks) and Red 3 (P/O Moundson) saw dive bombers attacking Dover Harbour. The former went to attack them but encountered 12 Me 109s at 11,000 feet. He attacked two with no visible effect, but saw his fire exploding on both. Red 3 was attacked by an Me 109 and was hit in port wing but e/a then disappeared.
Blue 3 (Sgt Smythe) broke away on his own, his R/T message that there were e/a on his left not being received. He attacked an Me 109 which fled at sea level, and he broke off when all his ammunition was expended.
Red 4 (Sgt Cooney) is missing and feared to be dead. F/O Weaver saw a Hurricane attacked by an Me 109 and go down emitting white smoke. It is understood that Searchlight Post No. 22 and Leathercoats Signals saw an unidentified a/c emitting white smoke crash into the sea with two loud explosions. A boat went out but found only three large oil marks."

Cooney's casualty file repeats the same information only adding that no parachute descents were seen and that only one Hurricane aircraft had come down on land, at Manston, and that it was identified and not Cooney's. It led the authorities to the inescapable conclusion that Cooney had perished when his aircraft hit the sea not far from the Goodwin Sands lightship.

The relevant section of the 'A' Flight, 56 Squadron, ORB for the day of the accident. As useless as expected in your quest! There is nothing in the 'remarks' no mention that the aircraft was lost.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1152808[/ATTACH]

Strange that - according to the paperwork that I've got, I'm sure that there was a third plane that took off with Knowles and Cooney - also landed safely back at the 'drome with Knowles - I'll double check the 540, just to make sure :thinking:

[stona]

It was a squadron patrol, at least one Flight, maybe both. As the Intelligence Report states, the squadron got split up as they searched for the enemy aircraft.

Form 540 'summary of events' is typically succinct.

[GerryW]

Sorry, was referring to the 29th January sortie, not his final flight.

Edit Just checked, and the 3rd plane (F/O Holden) didn't leave the ground

[stona]

Sorry, was referring to the 29th January sortie, not his final flight.

Edit Just checked, and the 3rd plane (F/O Holden) didn't leave the ground

No worries, probably some last minute problem.

[GerryW]

No worries, probably some last minute problem.

Probably the snow clogging up the air intakes earlier than the other two - after the three trainer Blenheims wouldn't get off the cleared runway!

[Ian M]

Any use?

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/226820

[GerryW]

Any use?

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/226820

Pretty much a summary of what I've got - thanks for taking an interest and looking.

[Tim Marlow]

Just out of interest Gerry, have you tried the archive of the local papers of the time? They might have info or a picture or two?

[GerryW]

Just out of interest Gerry, have you tried the archive of the local papers of the time? They might have info or a picture or two?

Thanks Tim, have a feeling that I tried some time ago with zero results, but obviously things move on and bits get added (papers office has moved out of Ipswich to Norwich so will check their online records and local archives office - which has also been moved out of town!), will give it another go :thumb2:

[stona]

Just out of interest Gerry, have you tried the archive of the local papers of the time? They might have info or a picture or two?

It's worth a go, but the press was constrained at the time about what they could report about such an accident. Even identifying the aircraft type might catch the eye of the censor, particularly this early in the war, when everyone was, frankly, a bit paranoid.