joint lines

[Guest]

After reading a few posts about joint lines and filling I was wondering do we worry to much after all would'nt there be gaps where wings and tail planes met fuselage especially in wartime and up to jet age

Also as I have never seen aircraft up close would the panel lines/hatches be so distinct as a lot modelers seem to depict

Please dont see this as a criticism if you finish yor projects like this as I am just asking

[jspitza]

Good morning, Sir:

Coming from an unbelievable airshow this summer and getting up close to warbirds as thought never possible, the answer is an absolute YES! No gaps or seams allowed-Tight!! I can post pics for you. I need to resize them though and I'll be at the local apple\fall fest today so mahbe late tonight or AM. I was talking to the ground crew around the bf109E and they let me touch the aircraft-a very rare moment!

[wonwinglo]

Full size aircraft are far from the smooth objects we sometimes produce as our models,there are various panels that do not meet up,ugly raised dzus fasteners for quick release panels,panels that are not the best of fit having been removed so many times in the life of the aircraft,I suggest that you go to any museum and check out the various areas where this occurs,unfortunately many modellers overdo the weathering effects on models which can spoil the effect,check this out as well,most of the heavily weathered aircraft that give this false impression are those stored outside in museums,they normally have badly faded paintwork.

Exhaust stains need to be studied as to the way that they evolve,for example check the distinctive way a Skyraider appears after a few flights !

After reading a few posts about joint lines and filling I was wondering do we worry to much after all would'nt there be gaps where wings and tail planes met fuselage especially in wartime and up to jet age Also as I have never seen aircraft up close would the panel lines/hatches be so distinct as a lot modelers seem to depict

Please dont see this as a criticism if you finish yor projects like this as I am just asking

[jspitza]

Full size aircraft are far from the smooth objects we sometimes produce as our models,there are various panels that do not meet up,ugly raised dzus fasteners for quick release panels,panels that are not the best of fit having been removed so many times in the life of the aircraft,I suggest that you go to any museum and check out the various areas where this occurs,unfortunately many modellers overdo the weathering effects on models which can spoil the effect,check this out as well,most of the heavily weathered aircraft that give this false impression are those stored outside in museums,they normally have badly faded paintwork.Exhaust stains need to be studied as to the way that they evolve,for example check the distinctive way a Skyraider appears after a few flights !

These are pics from the bf109e taken right before flying. BUT I seriously doubt that this is the condition during a sortie back in the day. Also, a few p51 mustang shots again right before take off to see that the clear canopy is not totally streak free. I beat up the p51 I was working on this summer imagining it was in a bad fight. Finally, the old guy is spraying Pledge lemon dust for polishing before flight. I asked him if he uses pledge future for the glass-he just stared at me, did not answer and got right back to work. Hope these help you out, Tony.

[ATTACH]17135.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17136.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17137.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17138.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17139.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17140.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17141.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17142.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17143.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17144.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17145.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17146.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17147.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17148.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17149.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17150.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17151.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17152.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17153.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17154.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17155.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17156.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17157.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17158.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17159.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17160.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17161.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17162.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17163.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]17164.IPB[/ATTACH]

[Guest]

Thanks for the replys folks

Jeff many thanks for the photos

So do you think then I could say; as all pre jet aircraft flying are basically 'Museum Quality' and therefore a lot better than when originally built

And modellers are also making them to perfect as they wouldnt have been built like that.

What if then the model is in any form of competition, would it be judged incorrectly and be down marked

Jeffs photos show there are obvious joint lines on major parts, which when I have at seen at model shows have all been removed.

[wonwinglo]

Tony,the thing to remember is the overall effect,look and sit of the model,all of these factors come into it,overdo any aspect and it spoils that effect,the judges mark up on many different points about the subject,what they are I do not know because I am not a competition modeller myself.

Dont worry too much at this stage about perfection,very few of us reach that stage anyway ! just enjoy your building and finishing to the best of your personal ability,otherwise things can be become a chore and not enjoyable any more.

[jspitza]

Thanks for the replys folksJeff many thanks for the photos

So do you think then I could say; as all pre jet aircraft flying are basically 'Museum Quality' and therefore a lot better than when originally built

And modellers are also making them to perfect as they wouldnt have been built like that.

What if then the model is in any form of competition, would it be judged incorrectly and be down marked

Jeffs photos show there are obvious joint lines on major parts, which when I have at seen at model shows have all been removed.

Tough call but I really think its up to the individual. Those that can make a "museum" quality sometimes choose not to! In fact, if you happen to catch any "Wings" or "Aircraft Stories" on the history channel you'll see that most if not all of the planes they show from WW2 are in horrific condition-panels buldged, rivets popping, leather boots tied onto the landing gears, ect. Definitely agree with Wonwiglo as the hobby could turn into a living nightmare. I always strive for the best I can do-either a showroom look or really worn. Does this help you out? I knw it can be a bit mind boggling with all of the options availble. I took the photos to really show myself what a flying subject would look like upclose.

[Guest]

Im'e not any where near one of the better modellers on here and personally I do not like the normal compations and have no wish to enter

The reason I first posted I suppose was to point out to other newer modellers me included whatever the subject you dont have to be perfect to have an accurate model as in real life they wasn't built that perfect

Also I was hoping that there was a competition judge on the forum that would say something and hopefully give some idea how difficult it is to do such a thankless job

[Guest]

I think a lot of it all comes down to scale and the individual situation. If we are talking about a wing root joint then almost certainly it would not be visible on the real aircraft so if there is any sort of gap on your model it should be filled accordingly. As has been said though different panels should be thought of differently so such things as engine covers or amunition covers which would be regularly removed may have a more pronounced edge than panels that are screwed in place and which would only be very rarely removed.

The important thing that most modellers forget though is the effect of scale. What may be clearly vissible in real life would be hardly noticeable on a small model. To get a better idea of the effect study pictures that are not close up of real aircraft but are taken from a distance. What can you see of the individual panels there? This is probably more in line with what you should be aiming for with your model.

[jspitza]

I think a lot of it all comes down to scale and the individual situation. If we are talking about a wing root joint then almost certainly it would not be visible on the real aircraft so if there is any sort of gap on your model it should be filled accordingly. As has been said though different panels should be thought of differently so such things as engine covers or amunition covers which would be regularly removed may have a more pronounced edge than panels that are screwed in place and which would only be very rarely removed.The important thing that most modellers forget though is the effect of scale. What may be clearly vissible in real life would be hardly noticeable on a small model. To get a better idea of the effect study pictures that are not close up of real aircraft but are taken from a distance. What can you see of the individual panels there? This is probably more in line with what you should be aiming for with your model.

This is a great point Richard-the scale size and is one that in my quest for the perfect panel line is ignored. I learn so much sometimes I forget the most basic concepts.