Me 262 1/48

[stona]

Theuns the RAF got hold of a load of Me262s at Fassberg. I've got a few of piccies on my HD but there are more in Vol4 of the Smith and Creek book. Gareth might be able to scan them for you if you need them as my Vol4 is AWOL.

There were others "acquired" as well.

These are the Fassberg captured birds.

So an RAF scenario is definitely on.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

I have seen a 262 with US markings on it , but not the RAF roundal. That's interesting.

I have seen the 262 here in SA, but is is a 2 seat night fighter and the commo on that is so fine it would be very hard to do with an airbrush.

I have also seen 262's with the splinter camo on the fuse, not mottle, when was this in use and where?

Theuns

[Guest]

I just saw it now. The "jerry cans" next to the jerry 262 LOL

Theuns

[stona]

The official factory camouflage pattern for the Me262 ,dating from 20 July 1944, shows the splinter scheme on the upper fuselage (quite a high demarcation line) and shows another line lower down which was to be the extent of the mottling. The mottling was SUPPOSED to be factory applied. This document also gave the upper colours as RLM81 and RLM82,superceding L.Dv.521 under which the Me262 was finished in a standard 74/75 over 76 scheme. There is an interesting note in the corner of the document saying that the underside paint (RLM76) was only to be applied to steel and timber components.

The problem is that even a cursory glance at contemporary photographs shows that these instructions were simply not followed. This was due to a combination of various factors. Firstly a shortage of the relevant paints. Secondly and more importantly, Me 262 production was fragmented with components and sub-assemblies arriving from plants spread all over what remained of the Third Reich. Some arrived unpainted (lots of pictures of aircraft with bare metal parts) and others arrived wrongly painted. In the rush to get the airframes out a lot of corners were cut.

As far as the lack of mottling goes,some aircraft appear to have been painted in a way that brings the upper surface colours fairly low down,the demarcation with the lower colour is more of a loose line than real mottle.

Here is a profile from the Kagero "Me262 in combat" book to show what I mean:

Here's a variation of that scheme on this machine from "Kommando Novotny". Low solid camouflage but a mottled tail fin and rudder.

There really are no rules for this type,this late in the war.

Just for fun here is an Me262B-1a/U1 night fighter of NGJ11 sporting RAF roundels and fin flashes. Fancy a go at that mottle?

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Thanx Steve.This what makes late war Lufftwaffe so interesting and sometimes rather confusing.It seems that there were no real "rules" to how the planes were painted and someone who wants to critisize will be hard pressed to prove the collours wrong!

I actually like the splinter cammo on the fuse with the mottle on the tail only, makes for an interesting variation. Now just to see if the decals side# in the kit was used in that time and area of ops.

I will post some pix of the kit next week for you to have a look at the decals and give me some advice if you guys would.

Theuns

[stona]

Here are a couple of profiles of "Novotny" aircraft (same source). Like all profiles they are artists impressions but are a good guide.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Would this be early or late war planes Steve?

What would the reasoning be behind the mottle only on the tail???

Were all 262 in a "standard" tipe of cammo, or wouls say the pure fighters be painted different to the bombers maybe.Or can one reason that as you stated earlier - the rulebook was basically tossed in the bin and what ever worked was put on??? LOL

Theuns

[stona]

They started training with the Me262 in April 1944 but it didn't really begin operations until July that year. The Germans surrendered in May 1945 so the aircraft only had 10 months of operation.

Those Novotny aircraft would I suppose be early. The W.Nr for the Me262 are bizarrely non sequential. The first block were 130xxx followed by 170xxx and then 110xxx. There were several after these. Those profiles belong to the latter two blocks. 170047 was produced at Schwabisch Hall and 110400 at Leipheim.

Who knows why they mottled the tail. Maybe they were delivered in RLM 76 and the squadron did it,maybe it was done at the assembly plant. In the photo I attached above all the machines look to have a similar mottle which would suggest a factory application. Someone might be able to identify a plant from the style of mottle,not me,not for Me262s!

All Me262s were supposed to have the standard Messerschmitt,RLM approved, scheme for their production period,irrespective of the dash type. This seems to have been widely interpreted.

I think it is true that the emphasis for production/assembly facilities throughout the production of the Me262 was on getting the airframes out. Compromises were certainly made,by the end they were being sent out completely unpainted and with very crude national markings sprayed on.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

This build just keeps getting more interesting with every reply.

I will re-read my copy of the "Aircraft of the aces - German jet aces" There are some good collour plates in there aswell ,and the one Ilike is the same as your Kommando Nowotny ,Hesepe Oct 1944. #"white 1" wk-nr 170047 flown by Lt. Franz Schall.

It is however a 262 1a1 and not a 2a, however I will take some "artistic liberty". The splinter cammo is almost to the bottom of the fuse.It and the mottle on the tail has a sharp edge to it wich should make painting a lillte easier.

Does any one have pix of the top view to show the cammo perhaps ????

Theuns

[stona]

Theuns I can scan the copy of original Messerschmitt document for you in a bit. I'll have to use SWMBO's office computer which she's busy on at the moment. It shows how the splinter should have been applied. The few images that show the upper surface of the wings would suggest that it was followed reasonably well.

Steve

Edit. You're in luck,I already have them!

From "Luftwaffe Colours 1935-1945" by Michael Ullmann.

[Guest]

Hi Theuns and Steve, Have eventally managed to download some pics from Vol 4. They depict Me262`s from british testing at Farnborough and also I have included a picture of Black X tested by the RAAF then shipped to Australia, I believe it is still undergoing restoration. If I can help with any other pics, please let me know. Gareth.

http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/me2824.jpg

http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/me2623.jpg

http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/me2622.jpg

http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/me2621.jpg

[Guest]

All thumbs way up lads!

I see in pix 3 that the 262 is already "down-under" LOL!

After looking spcifically at ground shots in my 262 book a few things stood out

1. very few 262's had the slats and flaps down while on the groung (good for me,less work)

2. Most of the pix depict the planes on wide open grass aerodromes, as one would expect.Only 1 pic shows my idea of a "bare minimum" airfield with a 262 (less engines) in the woods next to the autobhan. So an open field it will be for the diorama.

3. Interesting that the idea of JG7 was to use experten bomber pilots as 262 jocks because they had "C" rating and was good at instument long range flying.BUT fighting the 262 in ACM was not their domain.

Thanx for the effort guys

Hopefully I will get my grubby little hands on this kit tomorrow.

Theuns

[stona]

Nice one Gareth,I knew there were a load in Vol4. I'm going to make an effort to track mine down!

Theuns it is impossible to underestimate the effect of internal Luftwaffe politics at this time. When Galland was forming JV44 one of his first recruits was Steinhoff who had effectively been sacked as commander of JG7. Galland was determined to form a "squadron of experten" and went about recruiting many top aces who,for political reasons, had been thrown on the scrap heap. According to both Galland and Steinhoff when JV44 was forming,on the same airfield as JG7, orders were given to members of JG7 not to offer any aid or equipment to the "mutineers". Officers of JG7 demanded that Steinhoff returned a motorcycle which he had appropriated from them. Emboldened by Galland (who was still well connected) he claims he took the machine across the airfield to JG7 and told them they couldn't have it.

JG7 was formed from KG1 (the bomber connection) and the remains of Kommando Novotny (which had been largely inactive since Novotny's death on 7/11/44).

You wouldn't believe that Germany was fighting for its life at the same time!

Forgot to say that the Me262s liked to operate from concrete strips as they had a nasty habit of setting stuff on fire when they started their engines! They may very well have been dispersed on the grassy margins. Have you seen pictures of the tail-sitting prototypes? talk about fire starters.

I just dug out that book (the Osprey one). That looks like a nice profile and not too much mottling!

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Hi gents, have just taken some piccies of my Me262 with kettenkraft, it was made many years ago and the colours are not exact but you can see ( I hope ) what a nice kit it is.

IMG]http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/gary590/Me262K4.jpg[/img]

Happy sticking Gareth.

[Guest]

Forgot this one, silly me? blame the computer! or global warming.

Gareth