Help with Tiedmann's ride

[papa 695]

Started this [ATTACH]45513.vB[/ATTACH] but i'm stuck on the colour scheme

[ATTACH]45514.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]45515.vB[/ATTACH] this area shows a different colour to the blue sides is it like this [ATTACH]45516.vB[/ATTACH] or ist it just different colours of stipple [ATTACH]45517.vB[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]45518.vB[/ATTACH] I hope you can understand the question.Iv'e looked on the internet and seen models with both but i dont know which is correct Many thanks in advance

Ian

[ATTACH]48600.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]48601.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]48602.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]48603.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]48604.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]48605.IPB[/ATTACH]

[flyjoe180]

Hi Ian. It looks like an extension of the upper fuselage pattern. There are two versions I found, differing in their colour and pattern.

[ATTACH]45522.vB[/ATTACH][ATTACH]45523.vB[/ATTACH]

The second seems to have that extension and the scheme is rather different. I have a kit with these markings and was looking for some info too. Seems there were few pictures of this aeroplane before being shot down over Kent.

[ATTACH]48609.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]48610.IPB[/ATTACH]

[Guest]

don't know if i'm anywhere near on track here but hope this offers some help mate

Forgotten battle skins Cpt Farrels IL-2 Forgotten Battles Skins

[stona]

Gentlemen I will try and check for photos of this aircraft a little later this morning. The only one I have correctly filed on my HD shows the starboard side but the crashed aircraft has been camouflaged by having straw heaped on it,obscuring any useful details!

The mixed colour in the instructions is RLM 02,one of the two main camouflage colours and likely applied as part of the mottling on the side.

The area which seems to be an extension of the colour scheme looks to me to have been used to overpaint an earlier "kennziffer" or code number. This is not that unusual. It could be either of the camouflage colours but I reckon most likely the dark green. Just think what you'd use to overpaint an earlier marking.

I do have this.

"Bf 109E-4 WNr.1990 of 2./JG 3, “schwarze 13”

Oblt. u. Staffelkapitän Helmut Tiedmann, 18.Aug. 1940 POW after Luftkampf with RAF fighters. Notlandung, Leeds near Maidstone.

Cowl emblem: red Tatzelwurm; earliest-known spiral spinner. Wing, tailplane and rudder tips were gelb."

"August 18, 1940: 2./JG3 Messerschmitt Bf109E-4 (1990). Damaged in combat with fighters and belly-landed in Abbey Field, Park Barn, adjacent to Leeds Castle Park, 1.50 p.m. FF Oberlt Helmut Tiedmann (Staffelkapitän) unhurt, evaded capture but apprehended north of Broomfield after 12 hours at large. Aircraft Black 13 + 100% write-off.

Flare pistol taken at the time now held by the Hawkinge Aeronautical Trust."

Black 13 is a slightly unusual marking for a Staffelkapitan and Tiedmann was credited with seven victories which do not appear on the rudder of this aircraft. I wonder if it was his regular mount?

Cheers

Steve

[papa 695]

Thanks Joe,Colin and Steve even with the pictures you have posted it looks like two different colour schemes still, But i will wait for Steve to check his photos. If nothing conclusive comes up then i will just have to flip a coin Once again many thanks for your help

[stona]

I've only found two photos so far both showing the aeroplane camouflaged with straw after being shot down. I don't see any evidence on the photo showing the code number (starboard side) that this has been applied over an overpainted area. I don't think this is a "new" number which makes me doubt the kit profile. There is no other reason,that I can think of,that a patch of darker camouflage colour would have been extended on the side of the aeroplane over the mottled RLM 65. It's certainly not typical of other JG 3 aeroplanes.

I've had a so far fruitless flick through half a dozen books so I can't give a definite answer. If it was my model I'd go with the first of those two profiles,at least he's got the spinner spiral!

Cheers

Steve

Edit:

Get your coin ready! As far as I can establish the only other photos were taken by a man called Dennis Rolfe and published in an article by a chap called Paddy Porter. Neither of these gentlemen are with us anymore and the article/photos are "lost" at the present time.

[Guest]

is this any help mate ?

[ATTACH]45526.vB[/ATTACH]

shane

dunno how to remove the attachment with the yellow front :S

[ATTACH]48611.IPB[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]48612.IPB[/ATTACH]

[stona]

This is the best of the two "night time" pictures.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

not sure if this will help you but i found him on facebook lol here:-https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150552697929367.395865.661479366&type=3&l =6baa19bc92

mobear

[Guest]

and here

mobear

[papa 695]

Thanks everyone for the time and help on this. Think i will go with the different colour mottle just because i think it looks better than the solid dark colour

[flyjoe180]

I think that's a good choice Ian. Look forward to seeing it. BTW I uncovered debates online as to whether Tiedmann's spinner was in fact a spiral pattern. Some believe it was a pattern made of concentric circles. After you build yours, I will do mine in the same scheme. Then we are both right.

[Guest]

I would have gone with the mottle too, only for the fact i think it's better looking and more tidy .... maybe not exact historical accuracy but hey ho

I uncovered debates online as to whether Tiedmann's spinner was in fact a spiral pattern.

Isaw a few snippits of these debates and it looked like they'd decided on a "continuous thin spiral line" at the end of one argument.

[stona]

I would have gone with the mottle too, only for the fact i think it's better looking and more tidy .... maybe not exact historical accuracy but hey ho Isaw a few snippits of these debates and it looked like they'd decided on a "continuous thin spiral line" at the end of one argument.

From memory I think that Dave Wadman has a copy of the original "Crashed Enemy Aircraft Report" which mentions a spiral. Of course that doesn't make it so,concentric circles might easily be described as a spiral by an observer.Once again you are definitely in "prove me wrong" territory,as I doubt that we will ever know for sure one way or the other now.

The Germans were quite keen on spirals. Much later in the war a white spiral on the spinner became an official and mandatory identification marking on fighters.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Cheers for the input ...

Once again Steve, your information educates me and your knowledge impresses me