Red 163?

[Guest]

Hi. I am building the Academy 1/72 ME 163 and the decals for the single seater are white 26 of 1/jg 400 and white 14 of same sqn.

Would either of these planes ever have been painted in the tomato red some 163's were?

Thanx

Theuns

[stona]

I don't think so Theuns. I will be able to look them up tomorrow and let you know for sure. I have a vague recollection of White 26 in late war colours.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Thanx Steve. I will have to come up with decals for PK#QL as acordong to google it was painted red ,but only for one flight!

RLM 23 ROT seems to be about "tomato red"

Theuns

[stona]

Spate certainly maintained that he made a flight in a red painted Komet though no other evidence exists. We'll have to take his word for it. It makes an interesting subject. I suspect the red would have been RLM 23.

There is an interesting story about an orange Ta 152. On 22nd March 1945 Obstlt.Fritz Auffhammer (Kommodore JG 301) was to return a Ta 152 he had been evaluating to Rechlin,and meet with various Focke-Wulf personnel. Nervous of flying a new fighter over the trigger happy Luftwaffe flak crews he ordered it painted orange for the flight. Many people have doubted this story,but in September 2001 Jerry Crandall had both Auffhammer and Hptm. Roderich Cescotti,who flew his own Fw 190 D-9 (Green 1) as Auffhammer's wing man, sign a document confirming the flight. Crandall offered the two men various orange colours as possibilities and they both agreed on a reddish mix of RLM 23 and RLM 04.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

I have read that the red paint weighed 40 Lb. It seems a bit on the much side, but maybe it was lead based LOL!

Tamiya Gloss red as a base for decals.

Theuns

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[stona]

40lb sounds a lot on such a small aircraft. I've seen estimates for the weight of paint on a B-17 between 200lbs and 600lbs. I've no idea which is more accurate.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Well ,to give you an idea the Hunter T58 I re-sprayed took about 18 liters of paint (un mixed so more like 30 odd liters or so.

I recon it must weigh about 22-25kg (say 55 lbs) So lets say arround 8 times the surface area could be close to 450 lbs.

Maybe modern epoxy paints are lighter than the old paints.

From what you see in the pic, does it look alomst like RLM 23?

Theuns

[stona]

The "Ikarol" laquers used by German manufacturers during the war were resin based coatings,hence no need for undercoats or primers. They were designed to be applied directly to the light alloys used in aircraft skins.

The colour in your photo looks a lot like RLM 23 to me,certainly well within the ball park for scale model work.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Ok thanx steve. Stayed tuned for final pix soon.

I don't know if I have asked you before Steve, do you know where I can find pix of the ME 262 in USAF captured markings, or even I recall one in bare metal>

Theuns

[stona]

The Americans only took four Me 163s,FE numbers 500-503. They were less interested than the British who took twenty! I have a picture of W.Nr 191301,which became FE 500 (later T2 500) at the AAF Fair at Wright Field in October 1945 and it still carries its Luftwaffe markings. I also have a picture of the same aircraft with its later US number (T-2-500) on the fin,taken at Muroc Flight Test Base during flight trials in 1946. It never made a powered flight in the US but was towed behind a B-29. It still carries its original,Luftwaffe markings.

FE 501 and FE 502 were scrapped at Freeman Field in 1946. I don't know if they ever got US markings. FE 503 went to Bell Aircraft in November 1946 and its fate is unknown.

Oddly I also have a picture of W.Nr 191454,numbered "Air Min 204" by the British,on display in Hyde Park during September 1945 and it too retains its original Luftwaffe markings!

I'd be surprised to see a natural metal example. Even the prototypes were painted grey. There are quite a few non metal components too. Are you sure you haven't seen a photo of one of the wooden mock ups that were built?

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Hey Steve , most interesting as usual!

I was actually refering to the ME 262 Jet as being in USAF markings after the war. I might heve confused the grey for bare metal on the 262 bit it was only one colour with something sprayed over all the lap joints (maybe the Germans did full size pre-shading LOL!)

Thanx

Theuns

[stona]

I might heve confused the grey for bare metal on the 262 bit it was only one colour with something sprayed over all the lap joints Theuns

I know the one you mean now. That 262 was captured like that. The joints were all puttied and sanded before painting but that one never got painted. You can see the putty over the joins. Not unusual at war's end.

I think this is the one you are thinking of.

It flew in the US but retained Luftwaffe markings.

Here's my version. I went for grey putty,but if I did it again I'd go for a red/brown colour.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Oh I see now. I confused the bare metal one with what I thought had USAF markings on (must be all the glue fumes!)

I like your 262, very interesting. Would a bomber version ever look like this, or was it only the last few fighters that were not painted?

One might even spray the model and then brush paint the "putty lines" on as they seem to be slightly "un-neat" in the full size pix if you understand what I am getting at.

A red-brown you say???

Theuns

[stona]

I'd have to check the production schedule to see what was being built at the end,but theoretically any version could have ended up like that.

There seems to be a popular idea that the putty was a red/brown or yellow colour nowadays but I've not seen any solid evidence to back that up. Some,for example in the nose cone of the one you have in SA, looks almost white to me. I think you can take your pick really.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

This putty colour scenario got me interested in a weird "lets investigate coz i'm bored" way (probably just to see if i could suss it really i suppose)

This is sort of a tenuous offering but ....

I found a site where they had a german plane in for restoration (a blog on the NASM website)

Here they say that the plane (mostly laminated wood in this case) was filled with WOOD putty .... now going on a past vocation where i had to take a course in French polishing, the oil contributive to early European wood filler and putty was Cold Processed Linseed and/or Flaxseed oil which are a dirty brown colour....making the filler a light brown/tan when in putty form.

....could be / possibly / maybe feasible?