A choice is made

[AlanG]

Well i searched through my stash of nine FW190's and decided not to go with the 1/32 FW190 D-9 i have. I need more skill before i try that one. So i have plummed for this one instead....

Not built a Dora in over 21 years...should be fun

[Guest]

You know, the box art on this shows what a variety we could have even though we are all building a similar model. I think the 190 is a very attractive beast and I am really pleased we have gone with it. Great choice.

[stona]

Good choice. I've been thinking of one of these JV44 Doras myself. It sort of follows on from my Me262 which ended up with that unit. Plenty of variety even within the four (or five?) aircraft of the schutzplatzstaffel!

Steve

[Ian M]

I've made my chioce too!

For all you Papagei staffel makers, here is something you might find usefull: EagleCals #14

Ian

[AlanG]

Just trying to sort out the paints. The instructions call for RLM 74/76/81 but 81 is a brown colour and the box art is defo a green more like RLM 82.

[stona]

I'm afraid that the entire series of lat war RLM colours is a proverbial "can of worms". I've looked into this in some depth and still remain confused. I'm away from home at the moment so rather than giving a lengthy response with no references I'd suggest a read of this article by David Brown. His opinion is well respected and there is nothing controversial in it.

Luftwaffe Late War Fighter Camouflage - Part Three

Here is a relevant quote

"September 1944

Factory Camouflage Directive, Fw 190 A:

It is most probable that this document or a related order (possibly a document only and not an Oberflächenschutzliste), existed in some form and specified the 75/83 scheme for the Fw 190 D-9 as well (see above comments).

COMMENT: First operational use of the Dora took place in early October 1944 with III./JG 54 whose aircraft were camouflaged in the 75/83 scheme that is well documented with photographic evidence.(Smith and Creek, 1986, p.10). However, a change occurred in the camouflage colours used in early 1945, from the standard 75/83 scheme to the 81/82 combination, and it is most probable that a variety of transition schemes existed (e.g., 81/83, 82/83, 75/81, etc.) "

That's clear as mud then!

It would appear that RLM 83 is favourite. RLM 83 is only ever described as green in surviving documents. RLM81,as you rightly say,has a brownish or olive tinge. It was described by Messerschmitt as "braunviolet". I can't look up other descriptions at the moment,but,despite variations in the hues of these paints depending on the manufacturer,none imply a really green colour. I'd go with 82 or 83 as everyone from Merrick to Crandall by way of Brown and Ullmann thinks there was a green colour in that scheme!

I notice your colour call also gives the grey as RLM 74. I've only remember seeing reference to RLM 75 as the grey in the context of these schemes (as per Brown above). The standard was therefore 75/83 over 76. I'll look into the "grey variations" when I get home towards the end of the week and let you know what I find.

I may do one of these myself (I've always liked "Red 1") so it'll be a bit of a refresher for me and also the whole point of a group build!

I expect there will be plenty of debate about this as we start the GB. It's important to remember that we can only ever go with a best estimate based on available data,unless someone turns up with a portfolio of colour photos. We shouldn't beat ourselves up too much about exact shades as the truth is...noone knows!

Cheers

Steve

Edit: I notice the call on the Pacific Coast Ta152 is 75/82 and I bet that was well researched.

[Guest]

This is an amazing development and probably the best discussion I have ever seen regarding colour. I would also like to thank Steve for his never ending supply of information, willingness to chase up answers to the many questions that get asked on Scale Models and for being a really supportive member of the forum, c'mon guys, a round of applause for Steve... :terrific: Much appreciated mate.

Right, having suitably embarrassed Steve :biggrin:, I have a slightly related question regarding Life Color paints..

If, for simplicity, I decide to go with the conclusion above of "standard was therefore 75/83 over 76" In the Life color range there is LC-UA073 LifeColor Grey rlm 75 (22ml) FS 36132, and LC-UA508 LifeColor Grauviolett rlm 75 (22ml).

LC-UA132 LifeColor Light Green rlm 83 (22ml) FS 34128 and no other. Then there is LC-UA074 LifeColor Light Blue rlm 76 (22ml) FS 36473 and LC-UA509 LifeColor Lichtblau rlm 76 (22ml)

So, does anyone have experience of Life Color to say why there are two versions of RLM 75 and 76 and which is the correct one? Next GB we will do a yellow submarine lol (No discussion on which Yellow please, it was a joke.......)

[Guest]

Here is my choice Eduard 1:48 190A-5

[ATTACH]13782.vB[/ATTACH]

Just hope I can do the etched parts OK but really can't wait to get going on this GB

[ATTACH]22446.IPB[/ATTACH]

[stona]

Hi Colin,You've gone and selected something off the Eastern front if I'm not mistaken. That is another can of worms!!! The aircraft left Germany in the standard (for once) 74/75 over 76 scheme but once in theatre many units re-camouflaged using non standard colours. This was because of the change of terrain and the much lower levels at which they found themselves operating. Select from the following options:

1 Unknown and tropical colours (Unlikely IMHO)

2 Captured Soviet stock (Possible,if they left anything behind)

3 Locally mixed colours from RLM standard paints (My favourite,they were familiar with them,they were available and there is a precedent in the mixed greys applied in France 1940/41)

4 Some other option that I haven't discovered/remembered.

I don't know the kit but by the markings it's probably someone well known so you've got a good chance of a decent profile.

Good luck!

Steve

Graham, I'm not familiar with Lifecolor paints but I can say this. RLM 75 was referred to as "grauviolet" in contemporary documents. RLM 76 is referred to as "Lichtblau". The FS system is a post war one if I'm not mistaken so can only be a guide.

You've inadvertantly opened yet another can of worms! Towards the end of the war lower surfaces that were still,it seems,officially in RLM 76 are actually in a colour with a distinct green tinge almost like the British colour Sky. Here you have two options.

1 The manufacturers were running out of raw materials and left pigment out allowing the yellow of Zinc Chromate to colour the finish.(Ullmann)

2 There was no Zinc Chromate in the lacquer and this is infact evidence for the new,undocumented, colour RLM 84. (Crandall)

Me? I dunno,I add some yellow to my RLM 76 and call it "that colour."

Isn't the Luftwaffe fun!

Cheers

Steve