SimonT - M51 Toon conversion

[SimonT]

Morning Jim,
thanks. Barrel definitely looks more in proportion to everything else even though it is a bonkers build

Had to get a bit of pewter in there :smiling4:

3D printer - yes just a cheap hobby one, the latest addition to the modelling armoury.

I have been wanting to have a try for a few years but now the prices have come right down I decided to give it a go.

It is fascinating to watch it build things - a bit like a very very slow Star Trek replicator

It is also extremely frustrating - the manufacturers software is a bit pants (I suspect the printer is actually better than the software leads me to believe) and I have had a few blocked nozzle events that made it look like it was broken. Took me most of yesterday morning to fix

I do not see it as a total replacement for traditional scratch building but more of an aid, especially with the current rather poor quality of the prints I am getting - it is meant to have 0.01mm accuracy but I don't believe that, although it could be being let down by the software - what I draw and what it prints are not necessarily entirely the same thing!

The sprockets are close for example but not 100% and need fettling but still a lot faster than scratching one and then trying to get good castings, even with the time required to construct the initial 3D CAD model

It is interesting tech and I am sure the expensive printers do a much better job, especially the ones with resin baths etc rather than filament layers like this one

I shall continue to fiddle and possibly try out some different slicing software - there seems to be quite a few third party programs out there in net land


If the current print works then I will be able to make the basis of 55 track links in one go - not Friul standard but hopefully usable with a bit of work......

[Jim R]

Thanks, Simon, for the answer. I'm totally ignorant about 3D printers. What is the finished article made of? Is it like styrene so can be cleaned up with a blade or sanded?
Jim

[SimonT]

Hi Jim - mine uses PLA (polylactic acid). 1.75mm diameter on a big spool - looks like garden strimmer line

PLA or ABS seem to be the standard filaments on the smaller printers. Large professional ones have resin baths that use lasers to cure the resin and create the part. I have also seen ones that work with ceramic powder and even metal

PLA is fermented plant starch rather than a by-product of oil (ABS)- corn or sugar cane/beet pulp are most popular.

Tough stuff not quite as easy to work as styrene but I have found it will sand if you don't use course grit.

(It feels a bit like the stuff plastic chopping boards are made from)

Course grit tends to cause fluffy edges a bit like trying to sand the old polywhatshername Airfix figures. It seems to stick ok with CA and Squadron green appears to fill the slight grooves that you end up with between the layers and infill

Broke my (nearly new) tin opener handle yesterday (poor design due to scrimping on the use of plastic) so I drew one up with a stronger solid design and printed it out - haven't used it yet but it looks the part and certainly feels up to the task

[SimonT]

The plan to print 55 links in one go didn't work

Links became unstuck from the print bed and got dragged about by the printhead so I just ended up with a molten lump of plastic with links sticking out of it - the printhead operates at around 210degC so as soon as it touches anything it all goes horribly wrong

Cut the number of links down to 10 and it seemed much happier - got 40 links done

Got two halves of an idler joined with a 3mm spacer and drilled so that it fits on the kit axle

[SimonT]

Another small update


one jerrycan in a pewter rack added

one spare road wheel added - there should be two road wheels and two jerrycan racks at the back but due to the toon nature of the hull it is too short so it will be one can and the one wheel (which still needs some bolt heads adding)


two sets of idler wheels assembled - bit more filling required and then a set of hubs and bolts


also started trying to make some volute springs for the suspension - not happy with it though so will be doing this again

This is another one that I will not finish by the GB deadline

[JR]

Another small update

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1095610[/ATTACH]
one jerrycan in a pewter rack added

one spare road wheel added - there should be two road wheels and two jerrycan racks at the back but due to the toon nature of the hull it is too short so it will be one can and the one wheel (which still needs some bolt heads adding)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1095611[/ATTACH]
two sets of idler wheels assembled - bit more filling required and then a set of hubs and bolts

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1095612[/ATTACH]
also started trying to make some volute springs for the suspension - not happy with it though so will be doing this again

This is another one that I will not finish by the GB deadline

I've heard the last line before Simon .:smiling4:
Your really pushing your self on this, great to watch but like Jim I know little of these contraptions, as to the one with the bath that is just intriguing.

[rtfoe]

Simon, what a toon scratch!!
Its obvious you wouldn't meet the deadline with only 15 days to build even with the help of a 3D printer but its a good effort. :thumb2: Your average build time is not less than 2 months a kit as you normally detail it. Basically you disassemble(disembowel) and reassemble the basic kit :smiling5: The manufacturer won't even recognize it.
Please don't let the deadline stop you as I am interested to see this finished and painted up. Also looking forward to the restart of the 1/15 scaled M-51.

Cheers,
Richard

[scottie3158]

Simon,
The great detailing continues.

[Jim R]

Hi Simon
Always interesting to see what you come up with next :thumb2:
Jim

[SimonT]

John - I know, it is getting to be a bad habit :smiling4: Check this out --> Resin 3D printing

Richard - yes, I think I was being rather hopeful, oh well :smiling5:

Scottie - ta, still going......

Jim - next is drive sprockets, see below


Had a go at a drive sprocket earlier


by chance I found that three of the road wheels sandwiched together (with the flange sanded off the middle one) were just the right size for the sprocket drum so here are three CA'd together and filled



the printed sprockets still need cleaning up before they are CA'd in place but you can get the general idea

[Neil Merryweather]

Hi Simon, good work with the 3D printer. You'll soon be using it more and more once you get used to it. In industry they are used for making assembly jigs as well, not just finished articles or prototypes, so I can see potential there in our hobby.
Which model do you have? As a full time Ultimaker user I can recommend Cura as a slicing software, and the best advice I can give is to print something everyday,no matter what, so you get used to the foibles of the machine, tweaking the settings etc.
By the way, I would have printed the drum of that sprocket as well, separately. oh you did, you just filled the build lines, sorry
Once you have the CAD data ,having a 3D printer is a bit like designing your own Airfix kit, as you have to figure out the best way to break the part down into bits that will print easily, avoiding the need for support structure wherever possible.
Feel free to message me if you have any questions.
Also, you will find PLA works very well with dichloromethane or other liquid solvent cements.
Here's an example of the type of thing I print at work. It's a bit of London at 1-1000 scale, a jigsaw piece of a larger model as context for one of our designs. This is the future,folks.......
N

[SimonT]

Hi Neil,
Afraid mine is only a cheap XYZ mini
Their software is pants.
Have already downloaded Cura but because it doesn’t have XYZ stuff in there it needs setting up as a custom printer and I didn’t have the time or inclination the other day - will need to try and figure out the required settings.

Building the models in CAD is just like real scratch building really - breaking things down into more easily managed chunks

Like the chunk of London - bet the full thing will look impressive when painted up

One annoying thing I have found is that the printing does not seem very accurate - 100mm in cad model does not equal 100mm when printed. This may just be due to my buying a cheap printer of course

[Neil Merryweather]

It's definitely worth setting your printer up in Cura. what size nozzle do you have? I assume 0.4mm?as the trace is on the centre of the data and the bead of plastic is 0.4mm wide you are adding 0.2mm each side of it. If you can get a 0.2mm nozzle you will get more accuracy,. If I want two pieces to fit together I allow 0.4mm tolerance.
what are you using to hold the work on the bed? we use DIMA FIX which is excellent. Get the pen rather than the spray. It holds the work when the bed is hot and releases as it cools down.

https://www.3djake.uk/dimafix/adhesive-pen

As for the model of London that will stay white- the focus is on the mass of the scheme and its impact on the surroundings. Most of what we do is monochrome, or diagramatic colours at best. Which is why my job doesn't scratch the model making itch totally.....
happy printing!
N

[SimonT]

Cheers Neil

That would make sense and explain why detail not as crisp as I was expecting.

I was under the impression that the 0.1mm resolution applied to everything but I presume that is just layer thickness then.

It appears mine does have a 0.4 nozzle

So not too good for small stuff :disappointed2:

[JR]

John - I know, it is getting to be a bad habit :smiling4: Check this out --> Resin 3D printing

Richard - yes, I think I was being rather hopeful, oh well :smiling5:

Scottie - ta, still going......

Jim - next is drive sprockets, see below


Had a go at a drive sprocket earlier

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1095691[/ATTACH]
by chance I found that three of the road wheels sandwiched together (with the flange sanded off the middle one) were just the right size for the sprocket drum so here are three CA'd together and filled

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1095692[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]n1095693[/ATTACH]
the printed sprockets still need cleaning up before they are CA'd in place but you can get the general idea

Simon. Thanks for that link, that printer is fantastic, the detail on those terms it had produced are unbelievable.
Just think of the bicycle tires and spokes you could do, let alone sprockets. At 3500 $ whats that about £ 2700 , pluss other taxes it would be a worthwhile investment for some young tech savvy person.