Tim’s Hobbyboss 1/48 Fleet Air Arm Avenger MkI

[stillp]

Yes, I agree with loading on the flight deck, but surely it can still be done with the wings folded. I don't have your experience of course, but when I was building my Skyraider I found several wartime photos showing aircraft fully loaded and with wings folded.
Pete

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Having said that, I can't swear that any of the photos I have are wartime, and I'm wondering how they's attache the outer rockets with the wings folded, so I'm probably wrong. I've also just realised that Tim's aircraft is FAA and the photos I have are US aircraft, so maybe different rules apply

Pete

[Mini Me]

Cheers Rick…..don’t know about the worst……still got the wingfold to get right yet…..and I’m torn about putting the rockets on the wings…..were they left on folded?

When I was aboard ship we always loaded ordnance on the flight deck.....all aircraft were unloaded before going below to the Hangar deck. As far as I know this is still S.O.P. in the U.S. Navy. You might recall the shipboard fire on the USS Forrestal some years back. The ordnance crew were arming up a bird on the flight deck and accidentally launched a sidewinder missile into another bird parked opposite it athwart ship....not the best outcome, but imagine that happening below deck.

[Jim R]

I think we have all built models where the mojo flags. Too often when that happens the model becomes a "shelf queen". However, as Scottie said" it's looking good despite the issues so stick with it. Canopy masking looks neat.

[Waspie]

Yes, I agree with loading on the flight deck, but surely it can still be done with the wings folded. I don't have your experience of course, but when I was building my Skyraider I found several wartime photos showing aircraft fully loaded and with wings folded.
Pete

Can't disagree with the images, they would speak for themselves. Maybe they had a procedure where the electric circuits were isolated whilst the wings were folded. We have to learn from history! Be interested to know if carriers had weapon lifts that delivered large munitions to the hangar deck! In my experience all munitions are delivered from the deep weapon storage areas direct to the flight deck. (My experience is from the late 60's for a few decades).

When I was a missile aimer, (SS11 and AS12 missiles), the procedure whilst the armourer was connecting the electrical circuits was to place my hands on my head to indicate I was nowhere near the firing switches. Pilot confirms the master armament firing switch is off
.
HMS Hood was massive wake up call for the RN as to why damage control is so important even when conditions below decks get unbearable!!
The link above in my post 117, USS Forestal. Was/is a training film regards having live weapons on deck and what can go wrong.
It is said that a carrier flight deck is the most dangerous place on Earth. Weapons, fuel, heat from engines and not forgetting human error make for a volatile environment.

Years back, there was an article in the Telegraph, ( a bit tongue in cheek - but true). The US Navy has asked people in the North Pacific region to be on the look out for a Phoenix missile, ( missile name may be incorrect - memory isn't that good), The missile had left the aircraft during routine deck operations. Apparently, a fast jet had been doing practice deck landings when the jolt of hitting the deck somehow released the weapon.

[Waspie]

When I was aboard ship we always loaded ordnance on the flight deck.....all aircraft were unloaded before going below to the Hangar deck. As far as I know this is still S.O.P. in the U.S. Navy. You might recall the shipboard fire on the USS Forrestal some years back. The ordnance crew were arming up a bird on the flight deck and accidentally launched a sidewinder missile into another bird parked opposite it athwart ship....not the best outcome, but imagine that happening below deck.

Thanks Rick. I thought that maybe the case. The RN used the USS Forrestal fire as a training aid to show how quickly a fire can spread.

[Tim Marlow]

I think we have all built models where the mojo flags. Too often when that happens the model becomes a "shelf queen". However, as Scottie said" it's looking good despite the issues so stick with it. Canopy masking looks neat.

Cheers Jim. I will get to the end, honest :thumb2:

[Tim Marlow]

Great discussion by the way, lads. Looks like pictures are the best way to go to get it right. As to arming on the deck, wasn’t swapping ordnance on the deck one of the reasons the Japanese carrier fleet took such heavy losses at Midway? Hits were magnified by the surrounding bombs and torpedos.

[Tim Marlow]

Just had a quick search, and realised pictures are not going to help. The wings fold back, with the underside against the fuselage, so side on photos don’t show the rails anyway…..also, seem to remember that the difference between the Mk1 and the Mk 3 was strengthened wings so the Mk 3 could carry rockets. If mine is a Mk 1 then it becomes a moot point…..it’s getting the torpedo though, right or wrong…..

[langy71]

Years back, there was an article in the Telegraph, ( a bit tongue in cheek - but true). The US Navy has asked people in the North Pacific region to be on the look out for a Phoenix missile, ( missile name may be incorrect - memory isn't that good), The missile had left the aircraft during routine deck operations. Apparently, a fast jet had been doing practice deck landings when the jolt of hitting the deck somehow released the weapon.

Wouldn't be the last time the U.S. lost a missle,
they even have a name for when they 'loose' a nuke...

[Neil Merryweather]

I've just dipped into a film I recorded a while ago on Talking Pictures TV called Wing and a Prayer. It's all about a a US carrier in 1942 with Avengers aboard. There's some really good footage, including inside the fuselage, conversation between the turret gunner and navigator, made me think of this build(I know yours is FAA, Tim...).
I've only watched the first half hour or so but so far so good ,I believe the action leads up to the battle of Midway.

[The Smythe Meister]

I've just dipped into a film I recorded a while ago on Talking Pictures TV called Wing and a Prayer. It's all about a a US carrier in 1942 with Avengers aboard. There's some really good footage, including inside the fuselage, conversation between the turret gunner and navigator, made me think of this build(I know yours is FAA, Tim...).
I've only watched the first half hour or so but so far so good ,I believe the action leads up to the battle of Midway.

Finished my Avenger a month ago,but that sounds interesting Neil.... Think I'll try and track that film down :thumb2:

[Tim Marlow]

I've just dipped into a film I recorded a while ago on Talking Pictures TV called Wing and a Prayer. It's all about a a US carrier in 1942 with Avengers aboard. There's some really good footage, including inside the fuselage, conversation between the turret gunner and navigator, made me think of this build(I know yours is FAA, Tim...).
I've only watched the first half hour or so but so far so good ,I believe the action leads up to the battle of Midway.

Finished my Avenger a month ago,but that sounds interesting Neil.... Think I'll try and track that film down :thumb2:

I think I might have seen that a few months ago? Can’t remember much, but was it the one where the “awkward” dive bomber pilot got put in charge of the carrier air group to improve morale? Seem to remember friction between the dive bomber and torpedo bomber group leaders? The story and acting were really pretty poor, but the flight footage was OK…..wasn’t building the Avenger then though, so didn’t take that much notice…..

[Neil Merryweather]

I haven't seen that much of it yet but there's definitely an awkward pilot and the script and acting IS pretty poor. interesting to see the colonel from MASH as a young man, his voice is instantly recognisable

[Tim Marlow]

Sounds like the same film, should’ve noticed Sherman Potter though……shows how much it grabbed my attention LOL…..
Ive just read up on it, and it was very highly regarded in its day…….the carrier is Yorktown and filming was carried out on its shakedown cruise…..

[Waspie]

I've just dipped into a film I recorded a while ago on Talking Pictures TV called Wing and a Prayer. It's all about a a US carrier in 1942 with Avengers aboard. There's some really good footage, including inside the fuselage, conversation between the turret gunner and navigator, made me think of this build(I know yours is FAA, Tim...).
I've only watched the first half hour or so but so far so good ,I believe the action leads up to the battle of Midway.

Big question for me Neil. Is it black and white?
If yes, I’ll hunt it down and watch it!!!