Neil's 1-35 Liberty Ship Diorama

[Neil Merryweather]

I have clad the hull side with 1.5mm mount board as a substrate -I’m not wasting a pic on it - to which I will attach whatever cladding I decide upon. Experiments are being conducted as I type and will be reported upon completion.
I always intended to build the structure of the model from sheet material-foamboard,etc, so I have been studying my digital model to figure out the dimensions of the various structural elements, walls etc.
But I had a revelation....
I have two 3D printers; a small resin one, which I have used for all the detailed bits I’ve printed so far, and a large-format FDM printer (such as Dave Ward uses) which I have used for the larger pieces like the funnel and gun tubs.
It occurred to me that I have already made the model ‘virtually’, and it would be the work of only a little while to divide the larger elements into printable pieces, so I have started with the main deck walls.



I had to add some detail of seam lines, and the porthole detail is too subtle for the big printer , so I will make them separately on the small one .





They will be inserted later and backed with 2mm clear perspex, back-sprayed black - I am NOT doing the interior!
I made a recess in the side wall for the door





Here they are in a nice grey filament


The downside of using the FDM printer is that the surface finish is not at all flat-even when you print a piece flat on the build-plate.



Annoyingly this texture has to be sanded off, and unfortunately the only way is mark one elbow grease !
I do have an electric sander but the problem is that the melting point of the plastic filament is so low that it just wrecks the piece. So I started with P60 grit (which is practically cobble stones...!) and even that causes melting and has to be rested every now and then. I worked my way up through the grades to 320, which will give me a good enough finish for primer. So you see there is no advantage adding any detail with this printer.



Well, I think that's all for now folks.
Thanks for watching
Cheers
Neil

[Tim Marlow]

Excellent progress Neil. Interesting to see 3D printing in use for this sort of thing as well. As to the sanding issue, would working wet help (should keep the surface cooler) or is that a problem with the printing material?

[Neil Merryweather]

Excellent progress Neil. Interesting to see 3D printing in use for this sort of thing as well. As to the sanding issue, would working wet help (should keep the surface cooler) or is that a problem with the printing material?

Cheers Tim,
You're probably right, I will try it next time.
The great thing about 3D printers is they can be building something while I do something more interesting!
Although of course I spent a LONG time building it digitally in the first place .
The interesting thing is that I'm pretty much creating my own kit of parts,and in theory, when I have finished, almost all of it of it could be emailed to someone else to print it for themselves...

[Ian M]

I must say that I can not recall having seen these pictures that "went missing" at all. most odd.

That looks like it will build into a fantastic display when done. A real show stopper!

[Gern]

You don't do things by halves do you young Neil! Given the attention to detail that you gave to the LCVP that goes with this, methinks the end result is going to be spectacular!

[HAWKERHUNTER]

Such an interesting project and build thread Neil. Great work so far.

[Jack L]

This looks awesome!!!

[minitnkr]

I feel you're showing us the future now. Some great work. I would imagine AI converting photos to CAD files next.

[Neil Merryweather]

As promised I have been conducting tests on how to create the hull with all its rivets (1,064 - ish)
My main concern is the huge number of rivets that absolutely MUST be placed in straight lines and evenly spaced. I don’t have the skill or the patience to do that by hand, so I’ve got to find some way of reliably controlling the placement of them. Also, I want to create the effect of slightly battered metal, so my first instinct was to use thin metal like the copper sheet I used in my Higgins boat build. So, how to create the rivets? I do have a rivet punch, but over a thousand? I don’t think so! Pins, maybe?
I don’t have any with a small enough head(0.65mm diameter in my digital model), and I don’t even know if they exist, but let’s just prove the concept for starters. Now I need to create a straight line of holes at precise intervals, and I remembered my device for planting rye grass in my Fusiliers diorama- the dressmaker’s tracing wheel


I don’t really like the way the pins have dimpled the metal, it’s not appropriate for warship steel plate, but let’s carry on and see what it’s like painted.



I actually like the effect of imprinting from the reverse - the indents are a better size, but they are pierced all the way through. I ran some CA in from behind to hopefully plug the holes so we’ll see how that looks when it’s painted.


Hmm, not bad. The holes are still showing but I quite like the effect. Maybe there’s a way of getting around that. And the dimpling of the pins is not so noticeable.

Next I tried 3D printing the rivets, ready-spaced in a line. I placed them on stalks in a line of 16 on a bar. Here’s the digital model, it’s a lot clearer than I can photograph.


It certainly beats punching over 1000 by hand, but it was tricky to glue accurately and without leaving glue marks (TET). But it might be worth developing further.
I made quite a large sample panel (using 0.5mm PETG sheet because that’s all I have that’s big enough) because I wanted to experiment with ways of representing the welded seams.



I used two thicknesses of thin solder wire and thin plastic rod because the horizontal welds are chunkier than the vertical ones. It seemed like a good idea to try and reproduce the actual process, so I melted them with a soldering iron and laid them into scribed panel lines. I had real trouble gluing the solder until I degreased it - MUST remember that.....
The whole point of this is to test the techniques so I thought I would try drilling multiple holes in straight lines to see exactly how tricky it is. I used the flexible drive on my mini drill(not a Dremel, which doesn’t go slow enough) and amazingly it didn’t melt the plastic too much, I guess because it’s so thin. And it wasn’t as difficult as I expected either. I added a few dents too with various blunt implements.
So how does this look painted?



Kind of ok , but I am not happy with the glued rivets and the weld seams don’t really work.



And I must remember to dust it before I spray it for real....

So the next logical step is to see if I can 3D print the entire panel, rivets and all....
Stay tuned folks....
Cheers
Neil

[Jack L]

wow!

[Steven000]

Great experiments Neil, looks like you'll get there soon, already some very nice results ?

[scottie3158]

Neil,
I used rivets from Quinta on my M3 build they are very good but as to doing over a thousand it may be cost prohibitive. They are decals but I found it easier to remove them from the backing paper with a sharp blade then paint a strip of gloss enamel then place them.

[Neil Merryweather]

Neil,
I used rivets from Quinta on my M3 build they are very good but as to doing over a thousand it may be cost prohibitive. They are decals but I found it easier to remove them from the backing paper with a sharp blade then paint a strip of gloss enamel then place them.

Cheers Paul
I knew you had done zillions of them, and I might yet go that route. thanks for the tip about the gloss enamel - I assume it doesn't show through the top coat?

[scottie3158]

No mate, but when it was dry i did gently rub over then with scotchbrite other scourers are available to smooth everything.

[Richard48]

B amazing work Mr.M.Really top drawer.
Richard

[Neil Merryweather]

So, as noted in the previous post, the next logical step is to see if I can 3D print the entire panel, rivets and all....
It would need to be done on the resin printer because of the poor surface finish of the larger FDM printer, which means it will have to be individual separate panels because of the small build volume.
I made one and printed it flat on the bed but that didn’t come out well at all. I’ve always said that you need to be a tinkerer to get on with 3D printing and this is certainly the case here. After a couple more failures I set up the panel to print upright-i.e. Portrait, and it was going to take 17 hours....
That wasn’t a problem in itself, but the bonus of this type of printer is that no matter how much volume of subject matter is in the build chamber it’s the height of the build that defines the time taken, so I decided to print multiple panels to fit together.


The unfortunate thing about these kind of printers is that they are brilliant for complicated organic forms but not so good at flat surfaces and straight lines, so I know I am taking a risk. And everyone knows about the build layers in 3D printing but I am hoping I can beat them by building absolutely vertically.
Well there are build lines visible and some unexplained weird ‘coral growth’ on one of the panels but let’s put it together with some weld seams and see how it looks under paint. I had such trouble with the solder not sticking that I thought about other methods to represent the weld seams. I have tried green stuff already and found it difficult, but what I want is something similar but more easily controlled. I have some blunt syringe needles (and their syringes) that I bought for sculpting, so I squirted some Perfect Plastic Putty into one and then carefully squidged it into the grooves between the panels like a miniature b version of a silicone sealant gun



I had no idea whether it would work but actually it came out better than I could have hoped



So how does it look painted?



I like the fine detail of the rivets but the build lines are just too evident and eliminating them will be too painful. And ,of course I would have to create each panel in CAD, which will take a while.



But I am very pleased with the weld seams.

So I think the conclusion is that I'm probably going to use a single sheet of plastic with weld seams made with the syringe technique, and experiment further with ways of doing the rivets. I’m not going to use metal as I’ve decided against too much denting. The references I am using are of a ship that is 80 years old, whereas she would be very new on D-Day. I’ve ordered some small pins and insect pins although I'm not optimistic I can get anything smaller than a 1.42mm diameter head. But maybe I can refine the 3D printed method?


Thanks for watching
Neil

[Jim R]

Sorry Neil but I can't see the pictures. Maybe just me.

[Jack L]

No pics for me either

[Neil Merryweather]

Sorry Neil but I can't see the pictures. Maybe just me.

Just checked- I can see them Jim, I do hope it's just you-(no offense...)

[scottie3158]

Neil,
I'm with Jim, I can't see any pictures either

[Steven000]

Me too Neil, very weird, your story sounds very nice though ?

[Andy T]

No pics here too Neil