Figures or not?

[Guest]

To cut a long story short, bought my oldest son a 1/35 World of Tanks Tiger 1 scale model last year since he'd become heavily interested in tanks (due to the game). I built a few scale models as a kid but due to useless glues and complete inability to paint my models without it looking like they were painted with a hammer, I stopped.

My son needed some help getting started with his Tiger and I discovered that I secretly was hoping he'd give up - so I could take over!
That was all I needed so I ordered three tanks for myself, an airbrush kit, basic Tamiya and Vallejo colours, some weathering paints & pigments, cement, putty etc etc and got started! I've been watching a few youtube channels on tank building lately to work out what colours and basic things I needed to get started so my order wasn't completely random...

Needless to say it was the right choice and modern cement is far superior to the useless tube of "hobby" glue we had back then when the trousers were wide and ABBA was is full swing...

I first built a T34/76 just to get some experience and directly after I started building a Jagdpanther (Late version). Also bought a Tiger Sd.Kfz.181 (Early production) to be the next project, all Tamiya.

Now to the question then and the reason for posting, apart from writing my first post and sort of presenting myself.

Figures or not?

The T34/76 is/was built to be totally battle damaged and burned out so no figures, but the Jagdpanther came with a tank commander. This is the kit in question.


I've not yet really started to think about elaborate dioramas etc because I'm not ready for that, but I stil want the models to be alive and not just sterile and dead, but I'm just not sure about figures just yet...

If I choose not to have a figure then the commanders hatch should be closed, and if I do that it should be glued in place prior to paint imho, so I'm stuck with this commander and if he's going to be part of this tank or not.

What's your preference when it comes to "just a tank" and not a complex diorama? Do you use figures or not?

I could put just a pin prick of cement under the two halves of the hatch and break them open at a later stage if I want to include the figure, just to be able to get painting, but I thought I'd ask here first for some pointers?

Anyhow, there's bound to be plenty of questions coming my way in the near future because I've already made a long list of tanks/armoured vehicles to buy this summer because I've really rediscovered scale models and how fun they are to build! I'd love to attempt a full interior build, and also bigger models than 1/35. My eyes are not what they used to be and some parts are damn tiny...

I'll try to take some pictures as well. Hard to talk about making things without having pictures.

Many thanks in advance and I hope you don't mind having a lurking Swede here

[yak face]

Hi Jens welcome to the forum , as far as im aware youre our first swede so congratulations!! Theres plenty of awesome armour builders on here to give you guidance on your new hobby , have a good look round the forum and dont be shy of asking any questions if youre not sure , you'll always get an answer -we pride ourselves on being the friendliest forum out there! As for your first question regarding figures , they always add an element of life to a model but painting them is something I personally just cant master . That said ,there are loads of our members who are superb at it so hopefully theyll be along soon to offer advice . In the meantime make yourself at home !, cheers tony

[Gern]

Many thanks in advance and I hope you don't mind having a lurking Swede here

You're welcome to lurk all you like Jens - you won't find a better bunch of guys to lurk with.

The short answer to your question is another question. What do you want to do? If you want figures, put 'em in. If you don't, leave 'em out.

It's your hobby so do it the way you want. I think the closest thing to a 'rule' we have here is that you should enjoy your modelling. We all like to see models in full scale dioramas with background and figures, but if you just want to build the tanks on their own, that's fine with us too.

What you say about tiny parts and bigger scales is not absolutely true. With the bigger scales, you will want to try and add more detail - and you will find yourself trying to work with parts that are just as tiny as the smaller scales, but there will be more of them! Have a look at some of the PE and resin detail sets you can buy today if you don't believe me!

Any questions you have, someone here will no doubt be able to help. Meanwhile, welcome aboard!

[PaulTRose]

the choice is yours

i like to have a figure or two as well but i know it is my weakness, its something i do struggle with, so very often i dont bother just to save the hassle

there is plenty of vids out there that help

like everything it all takes practice

[Guest]

I always try to add figures to my armour builds. There's 2 main reasons why; it adds a sense of scale & tanks are very rarely left unattended. In fact I'm sure there's a German WW2 regulation forbidding this.

The Tamiya Jagdpanther is a great kit. I'd definitely recommend an aluminium barrel & pe engine deck screens. For about £10 for both its a small price for a much more realistic look.

[Steve Brodie]

I like to add a figure or two, if it's going in a vignette or diorama. Standing on its own on a base, maybe, but it does add a sense of scale to some or these big beasts. End of the day it's up to you, their is no right or wrong. Could be the tank is on the move or under attack, so likely to be all buttoned up anyway.

Oh and welcome to the group

[Guest]

Thanks for all the response!

Partly the reason why I hesitate to add the figure is that even if I manage to pull off a descent paint job - a dodgy figure will make it look shabby...

...but I fully agree that it adds both scale and character to the model if you include figures where appropriate.

One must learn these things and I better attempt to paint this commander to include it in the model for now. If it fails I can always glue the hatch halves down afterwards, and leave them loose as they are now.
I've just started to build a "man-room" for me and the boys (11 and 13) where we can geek out as much as we want. In fact it's mandatory by design I think... hehe...
Consoles, computers, retro computers (I've got plethora of those), posters, comfy seating etc etc.

One whole bookshelf in there is dedicated to various LEGO models, and a huge chunk of that is for the LEGO-compatible COBI tanks we've built the last year. 22 to be exact! Two airplanes as well.
This was also partly something that led me to get into scale model tanks again and I'm building a dedicated build & spray corner in that room so I can have everything in one place and somewhere no pets will cause a scene.

Thanks for the input and the welcome!
I don't give much for unfriendly forums - especially when I'm running one of the biggest Scandinavian forums myself with the same friendly motto - so I'm certainly going to like this one!

p.s I only saw the terrible news after I posted my question last night. I contemplated removing it but I decided not to in the end. I've got so many friends and old colleagues in the UK and my thoughts are with you.

[Steve Brodie]

whats the name of 'your' Scandinavian forum Jens

[Guest]

whats the name of 'your' Scandinavian forum Jens

jaktsidan.se

It's a forum for primarily hunters but also sport shooters and game dog people hang there.
We're trying to be "the friendly forum" and to help those who perhaps just have started or otherwise seek advice.
It's pretty much all in Swedish and some Danish and Norwegian.

[stona]

Partly the reason why I hesitate to add the figure is that even if I manage to pull off a descent paint job - a dodgy figure will make it look shabby...

...but I fully agree that it adds both scale and character to the model if you include figures where appropriate.

I sympathise with you on this. I like to add show figures to my models for precisely those reasons (most of my WW2 aircraft subjects are a lot bigger than most people realise) but do struggle figure painting. I reckon I get the paint on okay(ish) but my figures do not bear close scrutiny. Having said that, standing next to a model in a cabinet, viewed from a couple of metres they do serve their purpose.

I do think giving a sense of scale is important. Many would not know how big a Fw 190 D was, but they do know the size of a typical man

[ATTACH]282508[/ATTACH]

Cheers

Steve

[Tom Rigg]

Why not paint the figure. If your happy shove it in the hatch. If not take the paint off (Tamiya paint can be removed with a soak in oven cleaner and then a scrub with an old toothbrush. Or, if fairly fresh, a good blast with thinners) and try again. From there you could get a cheap set of figures and do the same. Something like these so you also get some nifty accessories even if the figure painting doesn't meet your approval.

http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/35mm/html/35180.htm

http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/35mm/html/35188.htm

Tom

[Guest]

Why not paint the figure. If your happy shove it in the hatch. If not take the paint off (Tamiya paint can be removed with a soak in oven cleaner and then a scrub with an old toothbrush. Or, if fairly fresh, a good blast with thinners) and try again. From there you could get a cheap set of figures and do the same. Something like these so you also get some nifty accessories even if the figure painting doesn't meet your approval.

http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/35mm/html/35180.htm

http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/35mm/html/35188.htm

Tom

I fully agree!
The worst that can happen is that I fail, and have to start over with my figures.
Eventually I get the hang of it - or give up, but quitting before trying is not the right way to go!

I've assembled my figures and have given them a base coat and now I'm looking at a few examples on youtube on how to paint figures and will make an attempt the next day or so...
I do have a plan if they turn out to be horrible and that is a healthy wash of dirt and grime! Tank crews were always dirty from the photos I've seen...

[Guest]

I decided to try my luck at figure painting tonight whilst watching TV. In poor light and even poorer eyes...

I've got two Russian figures from a Tamiya T34/76 kit that won't be used so I picked them as guinea pigs. It doesn't matter if they look like a dogs breakfast because they'll never be used anyway.

I primed with black. My first mistake I think...? The subsequent layer was hardly noticeable so I had to use thicker paint. Next time I'll use a lighter primer to see if that makes it any easier?

Anyhow, this was a brush only exercise since I figured the airbrush would be too hard to use on such fine detail. Also my airbrushing skills are still very basic and I would have more control over a brush.
Final paint you'd have to use a brush regardless...

I tried painting the highlights on the face with a slightly lighter colour but it all disappeared when I tried to blend it in a little. The contrast was too harsh between basic flesh and sunny flesh imho. I need to study this further.
The rest I just painted away not thinking of colour schemes etc, just trying for the first time. The body I tried to focus on the shades rather than the highlights and I think I was more successful here?
It looked great when wet but as it dried most of the detail went away. I'm going to have to apply a few more layers until I reach something that looks correct for the model, and something I'm happy with!

1/35 figures are VERY small and it's not exactly easy to paint the lips e.g., and I wish my eyes were a bit younger. I tried to shade the facial features but damn it was hard... I had to remove and restart this a few times and eventually I stopped knowing I need to plan next attempt a bit better.

So this is where I'm at with my first attempt. I've not yet tried painting they eyes simply because my brush wasn't fine enough - and I couldn't see. I'll try this tomorrow when I'm not so tired, and under magnifying glass. Perhaps I can dot some white paint with a sharpened toothpick instead of a brush?

I know the leather strap across his chest has brown paint outside, but this was more a test to see how you did all the steps included to finish a figure so I didn't bother fixing it. It's not going to be used anyway. The same goes for metal parts, buttons etc. I will add those things when it's time to practise those things, but for now I'm focusing on the basic stuff.



At a distance I think something like this, with a bit more practise and the missing details, it can be acceptable at this stage. This is my first figure for over 35 years, and the ones I did back then looked a lot worse than this one so regardless it's an improvement!
Photo-realistic models in this size is something I deem impossible, and not something I aim for. Something that completes the model and that looks ok-ish for now.

Next spare figure I've got will receive a camo uniform. I don't know if it's possible to do (for me that is) but one can only try and see what happens.

Regardless I'm glad you all suggested I try to include figures in the builds because I have to admit that it was actually fun to paint! I think with a bit of practise, and technique, this could turn into a fun activity apart from the actual build itself! I do need to buy one of those big magnifying lenses on a stand for before I go much further because it was really hard to see what I was doing. Also painting on the sprue didn't make it any easier like I thought. I've seen pictures of people putting a needle into a cork to use as a "vice". Much better and I will source a cork, or similar, tomorrow and try this.
I assume you heat the end of the needle with a lighter for easy attachment to the plastic part you're painting?

[Guest]

Apart from its shiny look, that's a very creditable first attempt Jens!

I never prime with black, a darker tone of the main colour is best IMHO. Tamiya nato black is good for green uniforms.

When it comes to eyes, just a tiny dab of off-white in each corner is sufficient. Don't use white coz it's too bright & don't fill the entire socket as this invariably leads to it looking like a zombie!

Here's a very useful link to the figures section on Missing Lynx.

http://missing-lynx.com/articles/articles_figures.htm

Mike Bannermans article on face painting is well worth reading. When I do single colour uniforms, I adapt his technique by blocking in the various shades & then jabbing at the model with a brush very lightly moistened with white spirit. This blends the colours in & gives a natural effect.
The downside is because I'm using oils, the drying time is longer.
Here's a couple of crewmen from my Ostwind
[ATTACH]283134[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]283135[/ATTACH]
I still don't consider myself much good at figures, but these are way better than my early attempts. So it shows what simple perseverence can do!

A head worn magnifier is very helpful

Keep plugging away!

[Guest]

Very nice figures Patrick!!!
Also thanks for the pointers and the link! Will read thoroughly.

I have to admit that my figure was still rather wet when I took the photo and the shiny appearance is now gone. A bit too eager I think
I've now restarted the face since it looked featureless and just dirty. I know most tankers were dirty, but they still had things like eyes, cheeks, nose and a mouth.
I've also attempted some highlights by mixing in white with the green base colour - and I found a smaller brush just prior - so there's better definitions right now but they aren't as sharp as I'd wanted so practise, practise, practise and practise...

This reminds me of making tin soldiers as a kid in a way!
Sadly I'm much more of a perfectionist today, but with age I'm also more humble, so hopefully I will find a balance in not expecting things to be perfect and be happy it turned out as good as it did?!
I'm not going to master this any time soon, and it's much harder than painting mechanical objects, but fun it turned out to be