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Andrew's 2x 1/72 S-Model Jagdpanthers

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  • adt70hk
    SMF Supporters
    • Sep 2019
    • 10400

    #91
    Originally posted by Jakko
    That’s exactly what it is, yes. Panthers had four rows of roadwheels, even though it doesn’t look like it at first sight. Not the greatest pic, but it shows how this all fit together:



    Note that the third axle has the all-steel wheels that a limited number of Panthers got, while the first two have the more usual type like on your Jagdpanthers.

    However, I now see I was wrong: the wheels in the middle pair are slightly different from the outer ones, in that they have a wider rim on the side coming into contact with the track teeth, which is lacking on the outer wheels. I’m guessing this is to prevent wear to the rubber. I thought that wider rim was simply on the back of all the wheels.


    Probably not, no :smiling3:

    Jakko

    Thank you so very much for the above.....very helpful and informative. I have never seen it demonstrated so well. Can't help thinking though that VVSS/HVSS systems on Shermans and the like were a lot more straightforward to maintain and replace when damaged!!

    Thanks again.

    Andrew

    Comment

    • BattleshipBob
      SMF Supporters
      • Apr 2018
      • 6792
      • Bob
      • Cardiff

      #92
      Hi Andrew

      Very good idea in the design room, but one major design flaw, snow/ ice/ mud build up between them! And a nightmare to change the inner wheels because you have to take two outer wheels to gain access!

      There's a video of a restored Panther going at speed over obstructions on a road. The tanks body was very stable.

      Comment

      • Guest

        #93
        Originally posted by adt70hk
        Can't help thinking though that VVSS/HVSS systems on Shermans and the like were a lot more straightforward to maintain and replace when damaged!!
        That is probably also why nobody bothered with interleaved wheels since then They apparently gave a very good ride and low ground pressure (it wasn’t just the wide track that allowed Panthers to cross fields that the much lighter Shermans bogged down in) but having to take off up to seven wheels to change one on the inner row certainly wouldn’t have endeared it to crews. Mud also packed easily between the wheels, and could immobilise the whole vehicle if it then froze.

        Later, the all-steel wheels like on the late-model Tiger Is and all Tiger IIs only overlapped instead of being interleaved, to partially solve both these problems, but it still turns out to not be necessary at all given how post-war vehicles don‘t use it at all.

        Comment

        • adt70hk
          SMF Supporters
          • Sep 2019
          • 10400

          #94
          Originally posted by BattleshipBob
          Hi Andrew

          Very good idea in the design room, but one major design flaw, snow/ ice/ mud build up between them! And a nightmare to change the inner wheels because you have to take two outer wheels to gain access!

          There's a video of a restored Panther going at speed over obstructions on a road. The tanks body was very stable.
          Originally posted by Jakko
          That is probably also why nobody bothered with interleaved wheels since then :smiling3: They apparently gave a very good ride and low ground pressure (it wasn’t just the wide track that allowed Panthers to cross fields that the much lighter Shermans bogged down in) but having to take off up to seven wheels to change one on the inner row certainly wouldn’t have endeared it to crews. Mud also packed easily between the wheels, and could immobilise the whole vehicle if it then froze.

          Later, the all-steel wheels like on the late-model Tiger Is and all Tiger IIs only overlapped instead of being interleaved, to partially solve both these problems, but it still turns out to not be necessary at all given how post-war vehicles don‘t use it at all.

          Thanks chaps. I've also seen a video of 'Cuckoo' the Panther captured and used by the 6th Guards Tank Brigade and you get a really good view of the suspension and road wheel working.....it looks an incredibly soft ride for such a large vehicle....but as you both say not at all practical!

          ATB

          Andrew

          Comment

          • Guest

            #95
            Originally posted by adt70hk
            Hi all

            So now the studies are almost complete, I have selected the next victims to fill the month gap between the end of my studies and Andy's Japanese Plane GB. I'm going back to my roots and doing these. Nice and simple quick-build wargaming kits but not bad all the same and two kits in the box

            I did buy metal barrels as usual but I should have waited for the kits to arrive before ordering them. The kit ones are quite good, have some nice detail and in any case, I can't make the metal ones work. :sad-face:

            I'll be starting these the middle of next week, at which point I'll share some sprue shots!

            ATB.

            Andrew


            I was after their Küblewagen but they seem to be from China only. Nice little kits

            Comment

            • Guest

              #96
              Originally posted by adt70hk
              Rick

              Thank you for the support and the tip on metallic finish duly noted but I'll leave it this time....mainly because I don't have any!




              Hi Jim

              Thanks for the support, they won't win any modelling prizes but on a wargaming table, there is no mistaking what you are!!!

              Its funny but this is the first time I have really got to grips with the MAC valve and got it to work properly!






              Hi Jakko

              I see what you mean from your shot.....as you say looking at my Panther wheels have also have the distinctive rim.

              I was going on the below reference shot of one from the unit mine will nominally be from and the whole side is shiny. Also, elsewhere, someone provided some close up shots of some in the museum and there is no protruding 'rim' on the side....it very obviously flat and the rubber is largely hidden behind the metal.

              Armourfast kits don't a rim but I am taking that with a BIG pinch of salt given their price bracket.

              Also the front road inner wheel on your demo shot looks like the ones below but I may be wrong....I can't tell on the second inner wheel on your shot

              Is it possible there were two slightly different designs of inner wheel?



              Thanks again all!!

              ATB

              Andrew





              Shots for vehicles from the actual unit (allegedly)...as you can see the sides are very bright!





              The reference shots I was provided with....definitely no 'lip' on the the rim, unlike mine.








              I have also found this one, with 'flatter' sides...

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]n1212264[/ATTACH]
              Awesome shots! Very useful! :thumb2::nerd:

              Comment

              • adt70hk
                SMF Supporters
                • Sep 2019
                • 10400

                #97
                Originally posted by Magneto
                I was after their Küblewagen but they seem to be from China only. Nice little kits
                Originally posted by Magneto
                Awesome shots! Very useful! :thumb2::nerd:
                You're welcome Paul

                I actually got this kit from China....I only use AliExpress and have never had any problems.....give it a whirl.

                ATB

                Andrew

                Comment

                • Guest

                  #98
                  Originally posted by adt70hk
                  You're welcome Paul

                  I actually got this kit from China....I only use AliExpress and have never had any problems.....give it a whirl.

                  ATB

                  Andrew
                  I have tried before - shopped away quite happily until the P&P. Then of course you have to make a run against HMRC…
                  That said it’s nice to know that the items do get through so thanks for that insight!:thumb2:

                  Comment

                  • Guest

                    #99
                    Originally posted by adt70hk
                    Rick

                    Thank you for the support and the tip on metallic finish duly noted but I'll leave it this time....mainly because I don't have any!




                    Hi Jim

                    Thanks for the support, they won't win any modelling prizes but on a wargaming table, there is no mistaking what you are!!!

                    Its funny but this is the first time I have really got to grips with the MAC valve and got it to work properly!






                    Hi Jakko

                    I see what you mean from your shot.....as you say looking at my Panther wheels have also have the distinctive rim.

                    I was going on the below reference shot of one from the unit mine will nominally be from and the whole side is shiny. Also, elsewhere, someone provided some close up shots of some in the museum and there is no protruding 'rim' on the side....it very obviously flat and the rubber is largely hidden behind the metal.

                    Armourfast kits don't a rim but I am taking that with a BIG pinch of salt given their price bracket.

                    Also the front road inner wheel on your demo shot looks like the ones below but I may be wrong....I can't tell on the second inner wheel on your shot

                    Is it possible there were two slightly different designs of inner wheel?



                    Thanks again all!!

                    ATB

                    Andrew





                    Shots for vehicles from the actual unit (allegedly)...as you can see the sides are very bright!





                    The reference shots I was provided with....definitely no 'lip' on the the rim, unlike mine.








                    I have also found this one, with 'flatter' sides...

                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]n1212264[/ATTACH]
                    Wow! Now that is an eye opener. You are definitely on track with those inner road wheels - that sheen is well noted!

                    Comment

                    • Scratchbuilder
                      • Jul 2022
                      • 2689

                      #100
                      Do not worry about the wheels/tracks, you have made a great job of them.

                      Comment

                      • adt70hk
                        SMF Supporters
                        • Sep 2019
                        • 10400

                        #101
                        Originally posted by Magneto
                        Wow! Now that is an eye opener. You are definitely on track with those inner road wheels - that sheen is well noted!
                        Originally posted by Scratchbuilder
                        Do not worry about the wheels/tracks, you have made a great job of them.
                        Thanks guys. Quite pleased with the but given what they're for, I'm not going to worry too much about going for a 'perfect' finish!


                        ATB

                        Andrew

                        Comment

                        • Mini Me
                          SMF Supporters
                          • Jun 2018
                          • 10711

                          #102
                          Andrew, These two are just the ticket, looking forward to the next update. :thumb2:

                          Comment

                          • David Lovell
                            SMF Supporters
                            • Apr 2018
                            • 2186

                            #103
                            Andrew totally agree with Michael fantastic job and I'll confirm your thoughts completely.....yep .....jagdpanthers. Come on guys its a 1/72 model aimed primarily at the wargame table ,no one cares about the wheels ,seems to me Andrew had a throughly enjoyable session bringing these two together made some nice little add ons result shows for its self. Well done buddy. Dave

                            Comment

                            • Richard48
                              SMF Supporters
                              • Apr 2018
                              • 1892
                              • Richard
                              • Clacton on Sea

                              #104
                              Mighty fine Andrew.Ive got a few 1.72nds to put together.Emhar Ww1 whippet,Azv,Mark 1v tanks.Plus 10 Heller Shermans which i love.Have a few conversions for them.Have you looked at the First into battle kits?,Seen a few made by Herbert Erpederp on youtube and they look nice little kits.Bit like Model soldier company stuff.
                              All the best pal.
                              Richard

                              Comment

                              • adt70hk
                                SMF Supporters
                                • Sep 2019
                                • 10400

                                #105
                                Originally posted by David Lovell
                                Andrew totally agree with Michael fantastic job and I'll confirm your thoughts completely.....yep .....jagdpanthers. Come on guys its a 1/72 model aimed primarily at the wargame table ,no one cares about the wheels ,seems to me Andrew had a throughly enjoyable session bringing these two together made some nice little add ons result shows for its self. Well done buddy. Dave
                                Originally posted by Richard48
                                Mighty fine Andrew.Ive got a few 1.72nds to put together.Emhar Ww1 whippet,Azv,Mark 1v tanks.Plus 10 Heller Shermans which i love.Have a few conversions for them.Have you looked at the First into battle kits?,Seen a few made by Herbert Erpederp on youtube and they look nice little kits.Bit like Model soldier company stuff.
                                All the best pal.
                                Richard

                                Richard, David

                                So very, sorry completely forgot to acknowledge your very kind comments! And Richard, I have seen the First into battle kits....even my wife had a go at building one in lockdown!

                                ATB

                                Andrew

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