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  • Scratchbuilder
    • Jul 2022
    • 2689

    #76
    Steve,
    Painting - you are being way too hard and critical on yourself.

    Now imagine that being the full size vehicle, three crew members are set to paint the vehicle - sorry but the magic spray gun does not come along and if it did then a crew from another tank broke it messing about - so all you are left with are cans of paint, a 5 gallon can of petrol and three paint brushes plus some cotton waste. You get hold of the bucket throw in what you think is the right amount of paint, add the petrol as thinners, get a stick that was uses to grease the suspension, wipe it off with a bit of cotton waste and use it to stir the mix to a useable state. This then is poured back into the tins and each member is off to paint their little area... Slap it on, cover up dirt in corners, patches of rust and work away untill the paint in the can is used, then off for a refill from the bucket, looks a bit thick so throw in some more petrol, not knowing that your mate has just added some - and you keep going untill the job is done....

    Does it all look nice and neat, not a chance, from about 50 feet ok, from 5 feet it looks like you painted it with a sweeping brush, and in the squaddies eye it is get it done either as fast as you can and get longer in the NAAFI, or longer to miss the next parade.... And if it is parade time, then the whole vehicle is gone over with cotton waste rags dipped in diesel to give the vehicle that polished look....

    And I talk from experience....

    So what is actually wrong with your model - nothing, it looks like it has been painted by a crew of tankies and not art students... The rescue of a poor paint job in modelling comes with the weathering and aging of the model...

    Click image for larger version

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    Just look at this for example, there are more greens there than on a grass field, a tot ally bu.......d up paint job, but after the weathering process....
    Click image for larger version

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    There is the difference....

    So stop the criticism, be objective, yes, criticism leads to doom and gloom and a disinterest in the hobby.

    Airbrush, Yes the tool that turns you from a three fingered bricklayer to Picaso in one easy lesson, and all it is, is a tool, you learn to drive a car, so you learn to use an airbrush. In my collection of airbrushes I have examples of the top brands H&S etc etc, did they make me into a better painter - NO! They all sit in the drawer in their cases or boxes glowering in envy at the cheap Chinese knock-off I have been using for months, that and an Iwata Neo, but it seems that the Chinese one is my go to airbrush.
    If we were to be painting with an airbrush every day then we would fly through the paint mixes, air pressures and do the calculation on fingers and toes before any phone computer, because like a pen it is their tool....
    Our practice comes from the moment we decide to paint the model, there is no limbering up, no muscle stretching, it is just mix up the paint, power up the compressor, pour the paint into the cup and a swift prayer to the god of air pressure and needle tip blocking and away we go...

    Do I practice, I should and I could, but I am far too lazy, I like the building, priming and weathering - notice I missed out the painting part.

    So your next job is to add a coat of satin or gloss, add your decals, seal with another coat of gloss and perform your weathering. I can only reccoment Martin Kovacs and his NIght Shift armour modelling tutorials on YT. There are other just as talented modellers, but he seems to tackle those problems we seem to come up against, so have a look and see what he does.

    Comment

    • Guest

      #77
      Originally posted by Scratchbuilder
      Steve,
      Painting - you are being way too hard and critical on yourself.

      Now imagine that being the full size vehicle, three crew members are set to paint the vehicle - sorry but the magic spray gun does not come along and if it did then a crew from another tank broke it messing about - so all you are left with are cans of paint, a 5 gallon can of petrol and three paint brushes plus some cotton waste. You get hold of the bucket throw in what you think is the right amount of paint, add the petrol as thinners, get a stick that was uses to grease the suspension, wipe it off with a bit of cotton waste and use it to stir the mix to a useable state. This then is poured back into the tins and each member is off to paint their little area... Slap it on, cover up dirt in corners, patches of rust and work away untill the paint in the can is used, then off for a refill from the bucket, looks a bit thick so throw in some more petrol, not knowing that your mate has just added some - and you keep going untill the job is done....

      Does it all look nice and neat, not a chance, from about 50 feet ok, from 5 feet it looks like you painted it with a sweeping brush, and in the squaddies eye it is get it done either as fast as you can and get longer in the NAAFI, or longer to miss the next parade.... And if it is parade time, then the whole vehicle is gone over with cotton waste rags dipped in diesel to give the vehicle that polished look....

      And I talk from experience....

      So what is actually wrong with your model - nothing, it looks like it has been painted by a crew of tankies and not art students... The rescue of a poor paint job in modelling comes with the weathering and aging of the model...

      [ATTACH=CONFIG]n1220356[/ATTACH]
      Just look at this for example, there are more greens there than on a grass field, a tot ally bu.......d up paint job, but after the weathering process....
      [ATTACH=CONFIG]n1220357[/ATTACH]
      There is the difference....

      So stop the criticism, be objective, yes, criticism leads to doom and gloom and a disinterest in the hobby.

      Airbrush, Yes the tool that turns you from a three fingered bricklayer to Picaso in one easy lesson, and all it is, is a tool, you learn to drive a car, so you learn to use an airbrush. In my collection of airbrushes I have examples of the top brands H&S etc etc, did they make me into a better painter - NO! They all sit in the drawer in their cases or boxes glowering in envy at the cheap Chinese knock-off I have been using for months, that and an Iwata Neo, but it seems that the Chinese one is my go to airbrush.
      If we were to be painting with an airbrush every day then we would fly through the paint mixes, air pressures and do the calculation on fingers and toes before any phone computer, because like a pen it is their tool....
      Our practice comes from the moment we decide to paint the model, there is no limbering up, no muscle stretching, it is just mix up the paint, power up the compressor, pour the paint into the cup and a swift prayer to the god of air pressure and needle tip blocking and away we go...

      Do I practice, I should and I could, but I am far too lazy, I like the building, priming and weathering - notice I missed out the painting part.

      So your next job is to add a coat of satin or gloss, add your decals, seal with another coat of gloss and perform your weathering. I can only reccoment Martin Kovacs and his NIght Shift armour modelling tutorials on YT. There are other just as talented modellers, but he seems to tackle those problems we seem to come up against, so have a look and see what he does.
      It must have taken you an age to type all that up but I thank you so very much for doing so. I found that very helpful and motivating, in fact I've just printed it out. So thanks again!

      This morning I tried to give it another light coat to see if it helps. once this is fully dry I'll do the coat of gloss and move on from there. I really appreciate the advice.

      Comment

      • Richard48
        SMF Supporters
        • Apr 2018
        • 1892
        • Richard
        • Clacton on Sea

        #78
        Sound advice from the guys.If the seam is still visible maybe a piece of camo net made from gauze bandage would solve this fella.Just focus on doing the best you can.Enjoy the build and your hobby always.Each build will be better as you evolve your own way of doing things on your models.
        Happy modelling.
        Rich

        Comment

        • Andy the Sheep
          SMF Supporters
          • Apr 2019
          • 1864
          • Andrea
          • North Eastern Italy

          #79
          I can only subscribe what has been said, Steve.

          Comment

          • andy55
            • Sep 2023
            • 325

            #80
            I'm with Rich and Andy, each model I do, I take more care. Main thing is enjoy
            :hungry:

            Comment

            • langy71
              SMF Supporters
              • Apr 2018
              • 1948
              • Chris
              • Nottingham

              #81
              Steve,
              I wouldn't worry too much at how the paint looks at this moment, like others have said, the variations in the finish actually help break down what is a normal 'boring'... single colour finish,

              Single colour finishes are hard to pull off as our eyes look for differing patterns to help gauge size and shape, a single colour confuses them as it looks just like a single coloured blob, this is due to the way light reflects differently off an item that is just one colour, now compare this to an item that has variations in the paint the light reflects differently and it looks 'different' because it helps break up the overall colour and add depth to what we are looking at.

              We, as modellers tend to over compensate slightly when doing this because we are trying to make something that is small (eg: 1/35 scale) look like it's much larger 1/1 version, and as such we use these variations in the paint colour to help

              Variations in the 'base coat' also help when weathering and aging the model and will help it look more realistic. (It's very rare that you see a tank that is in pristine shape, even a short run across the testing area will begin to weather and fade the paint on a brand new tank)..unless it's on parade, which is a different matter ..lol.... just what reason is there to paint kerb stones perfectly white and spray grass green on an Army base...oh that's right...it's for a parade or visit by somebody 'high up'..

              As for you thinking that your possibly not having the desired results with an airbrush, worry not, I've been using them for the last thirty odd years and I still bodge it up from time to time, I've just learned over the years how to hide my mistakes...lol

              Practice is your friend, (nobody could ever ride a bike the minute they were put onto one, how many times did we all fall off, get back up and try again?).. learn your own way and your own speed in order to achieve results that YOU want and YOU are happy with, It's your build after all and you're doing it for yourself.

              More importantly NEVER EVER compare your work to the work of somebody else, that's a sure fire way to loose faith in your abilities and step away from the hobby, take your time, take every coat of paint you lay down as you want it as a victory, and take every 'failure' as a chance to try again and to learn something new..

              you'll get there.. remember this, 'we all started in the same place !'

              Finally, the guys on here and the folks you'll see painting stuff on the internet didn't become 'master painters' overnight, they practiced and practiced until they were happy with what they'd achieved.

              So take this NOT as a failure !, but as a simple step towards a more realistic looking build.

              (Hope this makes sense and I'm not teaching you to suck eggs... :thumb2

              Comment

              • Scratchbuilder
                • Jul 2022
                • 2689

                #82
                Originally posted by langy71
                Steve,
                I wouldn't worry too much at how the paint looks at this moment, like others have said, the variations in the finish actually help break down what is a normal 'boring'... single colour finish,

                Single colour finishes are hard to pull off as our eyes look for differing patterns to help gauge size and shape, a single colour confuses them as it looks just like a single coloured blob, this is due to the way light reflects differently off an item that is just one colour, now compare this to an item that has variations in the paint the light reflects differently and it looks 'different' because it helps break up the overall colour and add depth to what we are looking at.

                We, as modellers tend to over compensate slightly when doing this because we are trying to make something that is small (eg: 1/35 scale) look like it's much larger 1/1 version, and as such we use these variations in the paint colour to help

                Variations in the 'base coat' also help when weathering and aging the model and will help it look more realistic. (It's very rare that you see a tank that is in pristine shape, even a short run across the testing area will begin to weather and fade the paint on a brand new tank)..unless it's on parade, which is a different matter ..lol.... just what reason is there to paint kerb stones perfectly white and spray grass green on an Army base...oh that's right...it's for a parade or visit by somebody 'high up'..

                As for you thinking that your possibly not having the desired results with an airbrush, worry not, I've been using them for the last thirty odd years and I still bodge it up from time to time, I've just learned over the years how to hide my mistakes...lol

                Practice is your friend, (nobody could ever ride a bike the minute they were put onto one, how many times did we all fall off, get back up and try again?).. learn your own way and your own speed in order to achieve results that YOU want and YOU are happy with, It's your build after all and you're doing it for yourself.

                More importantly NEVER EVER compare your work to the work of somebody else, that's a sure fire way to loose faith in your abilities and step away from the hobby, take your time, take every coat of paint you lay down as you want it as a victory, and take every 'failure' as a chance to try again and to learn something new..

                you'll get there.. remember this, 'we all started in the same place !'

                Finally, the guys on here and the folks you'll see painting stuff on the internet didn't become 'master painters' overnight, they practiced and practiced until they were happy with what they'd achieved.

                So take this NOT as a failure !, but as a simple step towards a more realistic looking build.

                (Hope this makes sense and I'm not teaching you to suck eggs... :thumb2
                I fully agree Chris - sound advice.

                Comment

                • Scratchbuilder
                  • Jul 2022
                  • 2689

                  #83
                  Originally posted by SteveT
                  It must have taken you an age to type all that up but I thank you so very much for doing so. I found that very helpful and motivating, in fact I've just printed it out. So thanks again!

                  This morning I tried to give it another light coat to see if it helps. once this is fully dry I'll do the coat of gloss and move on from there. I really appreciate the advice.
                  Steve, if it takes an age to type up and you only take in a part of it, then that is the job done.
                  I have looked at your model again today and to be honest - stop tinkering - the finish looks to be where you would have darker patches because that is where the crew enter or work mostly on the vehicle.
                  So looking forward to more of your work, and we will all help out where we can.

                  Comment

                  • Guest

                    #84
                    Well this is an interesting development, I'm a tad puzzled. Yesterday morning I gave it one last very light coat of paint and then left it to dry, last last night I sprayed it with humbrol gloss varnish and left it to dry.

                    Today I go and look at it and.. ohh, weird! it's what looks like grainy mess around some of the surface. is it supposed to do that? or is it the humbrol varnish not likng the tamiya paint, or something else?

                    Two pics for you, one of the tank as-is and one zoomed in showing the ..weird.. bits. (oh and the tracks are actually sprayed brown as a base coat, but you can't tell. it looks like the green but it's not)

                    Click image for larger version

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                    Comment

                    • Guest

                      #85
                      If I’m honest, then as far as I’m concerned, your mistake here was to spray varnish over the model at all … Nearly all modern decals will adhere just fine over matt paint, so there’s no reason to apply gloss varnish for that reason. All the varnish does, in my experience, is darken the colour and, too often, go wrong in ways you don’t expect.

                      Comment

                      • Scratchbuilder
                        • Jul 2022
                        • 2689

                        #86
                        That light colouring is the varnish laying on too thick. Believe it or not we all get this at some time or other. We think that we have not covered the model and then when it dries we end up with what looks like iceing on the cake.
                        Solution - mix up a thin wash of your top coat and apply a fine spray overall. the other solution is to ignore it and when you apply your 'dirt' wash this will flow into the areas where the 'icing' has collected.
                        And just to show that even the experienced people on here can screw it up....
                        Click image for larger version

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                        This was supposed to be a primer coat of MIG white primer over a grey primer coat... I sprayed this about 1 hour ago with the grey primer being sprayed 24 hours prior to the white. The problem - a bad batch of primer containing too much solvent (thinner).
                        My solution now is to get out the lacquer white and go over all of this again.
                        So you are not on your own.

                        Comment

                        • Scratchbuilder
                          • Jul 2022
                          • 2689

                          #87
                          Originally posted by Jakko
                          If I’m honest, then as far as I’m concerned, your mistake here was to spray varnish over the model at all … Nearly all modern decals will adhere just fine over matt paint, so there’s no reason to apply gloss varnish for that reason. All the varnish does, in my experience, is darken the colour and, too often, go wrong in ways you don’t expect.
                          But you are leaving yourself open for the 'silvering' effect you get when applying decals over a matt surface. Plus you can weather far better on a gloss surface that a matt where the wash/filter soaks into the matt and cannot be 'moved' around as easily.

                          Comment

                          • Guest

                            #88
                            Thanks!

                            Comment

                            • Guest

                              #89
                              Originally posted by Scratchbuilder
                              That light colouring is the varnish laying on too thick. Believe it or not we all get this at some time or other. We think that we have not covered the model and then when it dries we end up with what looks like iceing on the cake.
                              Solution - mix up a thin wash of your top coat and apply a fine spray overall. the other solution is to ignore it and when you apply your 'dirt' wash this will flow into the areas where the 'icing' has collected.
                              And just to show that even the experienced people on here can screw it up....
                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]n1220433[/ATTACH]
                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]n1220434[/ATTACH]
                              This was supposed to be a primer coat of MIG white primer over a grey primer coat... I sprayed this about 1 hour ago with the grey primer being sprayed 24 hours prior to the white. The problem - a bad batch of primer containing too much solvent (thinner).
                              My solution now is to get out the lacquer white and go over all of this again.
                              So you are not on your own.
                              Very interesting thank you!

                              Comment

                              • Guest

                                #90
                                Originally posted by Scratchbuilder
                                But you are leaving yourself open for the 'silvering' effect you get when applying decals over a matt surface.
                                That’s what I was trying to say: that hardly ever happens with modern decals, in my experience.

                                Comment

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