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SimonT - Pig Models 1:1 88mm Pzgr.39 (APCBC) L/56

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  • SimonT
    • Apr 2018
    • 2824

    #1

    SimonT - Pig Models 1:1 88mm Pzgr.39 (APCBC) L/56

    Morning all - couldn't resist starting this one yesterday evening

    Pig Models 1:1 88mm Pzgr.39 (APCBC) L/56 bought from the Mig Ammo web shop direct

    No box shot as it arrived in a
    brown square tube plastered in Ammo branded tape

    The contents:

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    base plate in ABS and the percussion cap also in ABS

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    the shell and cartridge case in some kind of vinyl

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    a set of cardboard stencil masks

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    and the highly informative instruction sheet complete spelling mistakes and a really poor colour chart in shades of grey

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    the base plate and percussion cap both suffer from slight sinkage

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    I suspect this mark should also have a swastika but has been censored

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    started sanding using a glass file (another great modelling item from the lasses makeup arsenal) to keep things flat - you can see the sinkage much easier now

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    the shell has some rather deep mould line recesses so they got filled with nitro 1k stopper filler intended for car repairs

    the nitro cellulose base is quite aggressive stuff so I am hoping it will bite into the plastic - it should also sand to a good finish

    the whole thing is very similar to prepping a car panel

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    a couple of years ago on a dark wet night I caught the front of my car on the garden wall and did this

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    after a lot of prep work I got it to look as good as new again

    I am hoping that if I follow the same process I may get a good finish on the ammo although painting it will be a challenge

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    the vinyl casing is not the easiest to sand

    I have been using a mix of gentle scraping with sharp blade edge initially followed by sanding with a Wilkos foam emery board and polishing with a green Scotch pad

    it is slow going and you have to remember to sand with the curve shape to avoid creating flat spots

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    eventually the line does start to disappear

    it will be a slow process - sand, fill, sand, polish, repeat until happy - but the prep work will be all important to get a good finish with it being such a large expanse of brass as the slightest imperfection will show up

    I have also decided that this needs to be weighted

    To that end I have purchased a large bag of builders sharp sand with which to fill the innards

    I have some ideas for a few tweaks to help keep the sand inside

    Need to decide on the weight of the shell and casing - so far various sites have thrown up different values

    I have a book on ammo somewhere - need to look that out
  • SteveH
    SMF Supporters
    • Apr 2018
    • 1287

    #2
    Looks like quite a distraction Si,

    Don't drop it on your foot once it weighted!

    I guess you are spoiled for choice with the brass finish and all the paints out there.

    I guess proportionately it will be least parts longest build with all the sanding, polishing before painting?

    Enjoy the build

    Regards

    Steve H

    Comment

    • adt70hk
      SMF Supporters
      • Sep 2019
      • 10400

      #3
      Interesting Si. Never seen one of the before looking forward to how it turns out.

      ATB

      Andrew

      Comment

      • Jim R
        SMF Supporters
        • Apr 2018
        • 15633
        • Jim
        • Shropshire

        #4
        Morning Simon
        Read the title too quickly and too soon after waking up - thought you had a full size 88mm gun for a moment :rolling:
        Never seen one of these before. Just make sure you have plenty of 'instent' glue! Good idea to put weight inside.
        Jim

        Comment

        • Guest

          #5
          Wow, that's unusual. Looks like a whopper. Will watch with much interest.

          Comment

          • SimonT
            • Apr 2018
            • 2824

            #6
            Steve - too right since it will be around 10kg! I plan to spray it with the relevant colours but then use AK true metal wax polish over the top. Only four parts but yes probably the longest prep time ever

            Andrew - so am I

            Jim - hmm, a scratch built 88mm gun to go with it. That would be fun. With the availability of online translators you would think that these days they might at least get the spelling correct

            Peter - just short of a metre I think when assembled, quite a size anyway

            Comment

            • Guest

              #7
              Originally posted by SimonT
              Need to decide on the weight of the shell and casing - so far various sites have thrown up different values
              This is the same ammunition as for the 8,8 cm FlaK 18/36/37, isn’t it? Then US Army TM E9-369A: German 88-mm Antiaircraft Gun of 29 June 1943 says the APCBC round weighs 32.74 pounds, which Spotlight tells me is 14.85 kg. (I quote this source specifically because I would suspect they’ll have it either from German manuals or actually weighed captured rounds to get that data.)

              Comment

              • Steven000
                SMF Supporters
                • Aug 2018
                • 2819
                • Steven
                • Belgium

                #8
                Originally posted by SimonT
                ... I suspect this mark should also have a swastika but has been censored ...
                Nice project Simon!
                I was able to buy an empty 88 shell a while ago, it indeed has the swastika in the circle :

                Mine was repainted in grey and fired a second time by the Finnish postwar army. (2 dots mark) I will restore it in the future so it's nice to see those spray-stencils and shell are available etc.

                Will follow your shell! :thumb2:
                Cheers, Steven
                Attached Files

                Comment

                • SimonT
                  • Apr 2018
                  • 2824

                  #9
                  Jakko - thanks. Not saying it’s wrong but sounds a bit heavy. Everything else I have seen points to nearer 10kg. You would think they would have it right in a TM though :thinking:

                  Steven - excellent. Thanks for that. Good to see a genuine one in detail.
                  Is yours brass or steel? The Haynes manual states that 6347 stamped in the base means brass but I can’t see that on yours. Yours also has a load of concentric circles in the base cap


                  So much for the car filler - didn’t grip at all. In fact it had peeled itself off over night and just flaked off in large lumps.

                  I have now used some of the new formula Squadron grey - very goopy stuff, and it shrinks, and boy does it whiff

                  Comment

                  • Steven000
                    SMF Supporters
                    • Aug 2018
                    • 2819
                    • Steven
                    • Belgium

                    #10
                    Originally posted by SimonT
                    Is yours brass or steel? The Haynes manual states that 6347 stamped in the base means brass but I can’t see that on yours. Yours also has a load of concentric circles in the base cap
                    Mine is a steel one Simon, but these were coated in a thin brass coat as far as i know...
                    Cheers, Steven

                    Comment

                    • Guest

                      #11
                      Hi Simon you probably got this information already.
                      • Weight, complete with fuze: 6.8 kg (15 lb)
                      • Explosive filler: 18 g (0.63 oz) of RDX and wax (90/10)
                      • Number of driving bands: 1
                      • Material of driving band: sintered iron
                      • Shell diameter at driving band: 77.4 mm (3.05 in)
                      • Shell body diameter: 74.5 mm (2.93 in)
                      • Fuze: Bd.Z. 5103
                        • Type: base fuze
                        • Weight with tracer unit: 107 g (3.8 oz)
                        • Tracer burning time: 2 seconds

                      Pete

                      Comment

                      • Road of Bones
                        • Jan 2020
                        • 254

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Steven000
                        Mine is a steel one Simon, but these were coated in a thin brass coat as far as i know...
                        Cheers, Steven
                        Looking at the stamping on the base of your shell, I can see “aue” - one of my hirework customers is Auerhammer, in Aue, Saxony. They specialise in bimetals, where one type of metal is mechanically-bonded to another. This includes ammunition, where a thin layer of brass is bonded to mild steel. The brass is essentially self-lubricating, which makes the cartridges easier to manipulate in the weapon’s chamber. The steel is cheaper than brass, and can be deep-drawn to make the cartridges.
                        I suspect that this shell was made by my customer- there has been a metalworks in Aue for over 500 years, and the town was a strategic objective for the Red Army at the end of the war.

                        Comment

                        • Guest

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Road of Bones
                          Looking at the stamping on the base of your shell, I can see “aue” - one of my hirework customers is Auerhammer, in Aue, Saxony.
                          That’s not what [ICODE]aue[/ICODE] indicates German wartime equipment was marked with a letter code (one or two letters in October 1940, three from November) that indicates the producer, but these were codes, not abbreviations. The meaning of many is known, but some are not. [ICODE]aue[/ICODE] is Metall u. Eisen GmbH, Nürnberg, according to this site.

                          Comment

                          • Guest

                            #14
                            Originally posted by SimonT
                            Jakko - thanks. Not saying it’s wrong but sounds a bit heavy. Everything else I have seen points to nearer 10kg. You would think they would have it right in a TM though :thinking:
                            Wikipedia’s article has the projectile weight as 10.20 kg for the PzGr. 39 but doesn’t list complete round weight. Spielberger’s Der Panzerkampfwagen Tiger und seine Abarten lists the PzGr. 39 projectile (Geschoß, it says on the relevant table) for the KwK 43 L/71 as weighing 10.16 kg, and AFAIK the projectiles of these 8,8 cm guns were virtually identical even if the cases weren’t.

                            It looks to me like 14.85 kg is fairly accurate, but that many sources confuse projectile weight with round weight.

                            Comment

                            • Road of Bones
                              • Jan 2020
                              • 254

                              #15
                              I stand corrected. My customer still manufactures bimetallic material for cartridges though! :tongue-out:

                              Comment

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