3D printing and digital sculptures, the future of modelling?

[Ian M]

Having seen that wonderful sculpt of the mounted hunter/warrior with the snow leopard, my brain broke and thoughts sept into the cracks.
Could this be the future of our hobby?
One day maybe they could 3D print polystyrene plastic? Instead of expensive gambling in which scale to make the new release in, how much detail it should contain, would you like soft rubber tyres with that?
The manufacturer could make the 3D model as packed with details as they could. Let's say it's a tiger tank just to have a subject. When you order you kit you can decide which scale, if you want a full or part interior detail, single links or i
link and length. Depending how much detail and which scale reflected in the price.

[AlanG]

I think it is the future Ian. There is someone on a different forum already offering/designing AM bits for the 1/32 Revell Beaufighter and they look stunning.

[Ian M]

I was thinking more along the lines of Airfix or Trumpeter and ten like.
Solve a lot of moaning about new releases being "the wronge " scale.
Imagine being able to order a full kit in the scale that you want it in. Suddenly you can get armour and aircraft in the same larger scale. ground support in the same scale,

[AlanG]

I believe they would already be looking into it. Even the big companies must see the potential to be able to react to market demands

[Guest]

The main problem I see is that 3D printing is very time-consuming, and that is unlikely to come down all that much because the main costs (once you’ve bought your printer) are in operator wages, I think.

It’s very flexible, though, which means it’s good for small production runs: you don’t need new tooling or even moulds to produce something different, just a 3D model (and a simpler one than you need to design moulds at that), but if you want to make a lot of it, you’re probably better of spending more on higher-speed production like resin or injection moulding, with which you can have the same operator turn out more product in the same time.

[AlanG]

That's the thing Jakko. Small production runs would be good for them as the company can cater for market demands on whichever kit is selling better. That way there is limited 'dead stock' standing around not making money.

[Steven000]

I made a lot of 3d models for 3d printing (mostly 1/144) , the main issue has always been the cost to get things printed, a 3d printer consumes a vast amount of energy (heat, time, electr...) and expensive materials.

So it's used for prototypes but is 'at the moment' not suited for 'on demand' customer models imho, and I think it won't be so in the near future...

Cheers, Steven

[Dave Ward]

In my former life as a design engineer, I used quite a bit of rapid prototyping, and I met some real experts on the subject. they had some really nifty kit ( all costing £+++++++)
3-D printing has it's place in the model market, but at the moment, it will be a specialist niche. The home 3-D printers (FDM ) have come a long way, but the materials used are a bit troublesome some are not dimensionally stable - they either dry out & shrink, or absorb water and expand. Coupled with the large tolerances quoted for the home printers, accurate interchangeable parts are iffy. The really accurate stuff, laser sintering etc. is much more expensive, more time consuming, and not really suitable for home use. ( H&S)
Figure sculptures - Ideal subjects I would say, but you have to able to sculpt in a 3-D drawing programme, or have a laser scanner to input a solid figure into the programme.
Like Digital Photography at first, 3-D printing isn't really there yet, but give a few years more development, and better materials..................
Dave

[Steven000]

Figure sculptures - Ideal subjects I would say, but you have to able to sculpt in a 3-D drawing programme, or have a laser scanner to input a solid figure into the programme.

That's right, you can clearly see in a lot of 'new' product images that the models are designed in 3D, that's also why (most) modern kits have better fittings then old kits etc.

Just a few rapid examples ;
Masterbox figures in 3D, they can scale it as they like


'New' Bronco models, always 3D images, I assume they send it to a CNC for routing out the mold.

[Neil Merryweather]

I think the short answer is Yes, it is the future. I use 3D printing every day in my job as an architectural model maker and have been for the past 15 years or more. Things have changed exponentially since the early days and I have no doubt that more industries will start using the various processes, which will generate new materials, greater speeds and new ideas. Machine costs have already come right down and whist I don't think there's a need or likely hood for 'every home to have one', it won't be too long before 3D printing becomes the new polyurethane resin, allowing small companies to offer exactly what you suggest- your option of model at the scale of your choice, and especially after market details. In fact I think there's already at least one firm offering weapons at various scales. Of course, as a hobbyist you need to have the cad or digital modelling skills to create the product in the first place.and this is where we need younger people in our area of interest ( military). There's already a huge amount of talent and material in the area of fantasy modelling.
If I was interested in setting up a business,this would definitely be a possibility.
As it is, one of my retirement projects is to learn digital sculpting,but that's still a few years away.

[Dave Ward]

As a design engineer - I started using CADAM ( originally Boeing ), a 2-D drawing system, then as technology advanced, I moved to CATIA 4 & 5 ( Dassault ), Autodesk Inventor, & IDEAS - all high end 3-D modelling systems, with stress & analysis features thrown in. I guess it took me about 5 years to become proficient enough to design crankcases & cylinder heads.
My point is that a 3-D printed model is only as good as the CAD model. Producing a CAD model of an existing part needs either the ability to 3-D scan, and measure an existing part, or being able to interpret a fully annotated 2-D drawing - NOT an easy task ( I spent my first 18 months as a DE, making CAD models from existing paper drawings, with some hilarious results ). Access to this sort of drawing is rare, especially for commercial use! User friendly 3-D software is now readily available, but the massive stumbling block is sourcing the raw data...............
Dave

[AlanG]

But Dave. With the ability to laser scan things these days and convert that data to a 3D drawing/picture, things have gotten so much easier. The example that springs to mind is the Revell Me262. Laser scanned and used to create a fantastic model kit. There are other companies such as Tamiya with their latest P-38 that have done the same thing. And as technology and experience progresses, the ability to 3D print things will take the natural course and be entwined into manufacturing processes.

[Ian M]

But surely a large firm that spends thousands on getting a new tool made for each and every sprue that is in the final kit would have the resources to invest in industrial quality machines. It appears that we are getting hung up on the 'garage' makers and small domestic machines. Also a thing that helps is that the 'big boys' already have a lot of the 'toys' needed. Airfix where very proud to show off their 3D scanner that they used on one of their new kits a year or so back. This naturally means there has to be a subject to scan.
I Have played with 3D max and Poser and even I after a few tries, could make a pretty good 3D model At that time though a 3D printer only a pipe dream.
Rather than try to find reasons why not I try to find the reasons why it could be the way to go. I'm not saying that injection moulding should go, nor resin for that matter. I just can help feeling that there must be a market for for kits that you can choose the level of detail and the scale you want it in.
No more whining about the newest Airfix being in the wrong scale. (Already many are miffed that the new Vulcan is "another 1/72" also hear a lot of We need a 1/32 Buccaneer. A 1/6 scale figure of.... A 1/48 scale bomb supply set for your aircraft dio.
A single 3D model could cover all the scales at the push of a button. Add on all the detail options you want and press pay.

[Peter Gillson]

Hi Guys

Here is my pennyworth from a figure modelling point of view. I agree that cad is more likely to be used for prototypes or masters than long production runs. Andrea already seem to use CAD for their figures, I assume thins since they often produce the same figure in multiple scales from 1/72 up to bust size.

If my aim for Sarnia Miniatures was for it to be a full-time business rather than a sideline to my hobby I would definately invest my time in getting to grips with one of the 3D sculpting program such as Zbrush because I am sure it will be faster to sculpt a bust using Zbrush - and easier to make changes as well as achieve finer details (assuming the printer can print such details). Sculpting a 3.5mm Victoria Cross is no easy task!

I liken the development to the changes which programs like Photoshop brought to the world of 2D illustration. A friend of mine was a well respected book cover illustrator who was in great demand in the 70's and 80's but has 'lost out' to digital art because of the speed and flexibility of digital art - a pink dress instead of green? no problem. Fortunately for him is was nearing retirement anyway.

Peter

[Dave Ward]

The larger manufacturers do have all their 'toys' - but with their overheads, market analysis etc, we end up with the constant procession of Tigers, Panthers, Spitfires etc, as they know what will sell well. I think it's the level below the big boys we have to look to for some fresher thinking. Tooling can now be made more cheaply, with some non-metallic materials being used - they don't have the life span of metallic moulds, but the outlay is much less.
A company that springs to mind is Arma Hobby - they sell the same models, as a basic box, and as a expert boxing, with added PE & more decal variants, with a substantial difference in price. ( I'm sure that others do this, but I'm familiar with AH models ). Obviously the smaller companies have limited catalogues, but I hope others go down the same route
Dave