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3D printing and digital sculptures, the future of modelling?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Ian M
    But surely a large firm that spends thousands on getting a new tool made for each and every sprue that is in the final kit would have the resources to invest in industrial quality machines. It appears that we are getting hung up on the 'garage' makers and small domestic machines.
    The thing with that is that most types of big, industrial-sized 3D printers don’t produce large numbers of parts faster than they can single parts. Yes, it may produce them faster than a home model may (and probably to better resolution), but if one copy of a part takes the machine (say) ten minutes to produce, and it can hold a hundred copies of that part to print simultaneously — then it cannot print a hundred parts in ten minutes. It will take (roughly) a hundred times ten minutes to print those hundred parts.

    This is because the printer only prints in one spot at a time: it doesn’t go over the whole printable area every time, it just focuses its print head or laser on the bits where material needs to be built up. That means that it will take about the same length of time to produce each item regardless of how many are being made at the same time, rather than the ability to produce a whole bunch in one go like you could with, say, a mould into which a dozen identical cavities have been cut for material to flow into.

    Originally posted by Ian M
    I just can help feeling that there must be a market for for kits that you can choose the level of detail and the scale you want it in.
    I agree, but I don’t think it’s viable yet for large-scale made-to-order manufacture. Aftermarket parts, yes: buy a plastic kit, then buy a 3D-printed conversion set, for example.

    Originally posted by Ian M
    A single 3D model could cover all the scales at the push of a button.
    Not really, unfortunately. You have to take material thicknesses and tolerances into account as well: if you draw your model for, say, 1:35 scale and somebody wants it at 1:72, you (probably) can’t just reduce it by ³⁵∕₇₂ and print it because you’ll end up with bits that are too thin and will warp or break, and/or detail that will be too small to come out right and therefore looks bad.

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    • Neil Merryweather
      SMF Supporters
      • Dec 2018
      • 5185
      • London

      #17
      There are technologies now , and relatively cheap ones, that can print 100 parts as quickly as 1 part, so that will not be an issue much longer.
      You are correct about the scale issue, but it's not that difficult to alter the relevent areas digitally.
      Honestly, it's a question of when, not if....
      There are mainstream footwear companies that are now using 3d printed materials and components .
      It's only a matter of time before other industries get on the bandwagon

      Comment

      • Guest

        #18
        Originally posted by Neil Merryweather
        There are technologies now , and relatively cheap ones, that can print 100 parts as quickly as 1 part, so that will not be an issue much longer.
        Good, that might make this more feasible

        Originally posted by Neil Merryweather
        You are correct about the scale issue, but it's not that difficult to alter the relevent areas digitally.
        Of course, but that takes more work than people think it does to scale a 3D model. Sure, if you’ve got it at 1:32 and someone wants it in 1:35, all you need to do is scale it down slightly, but for many models it entails partial redesign, if not complete.

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        • Neil Merryweather
          SMF Supporters
          • Dec 2018
          • 5185
          • London

          #19
          Originally posted by Jakko
          Good, that might make this more feasible :smiling3:


          Of course, but that takes more work than people think it does to scale a 3D model. Sure, if you’ve got it at 1:32 and someone wants it in 1:35, all you need to do is scale it down slightly, but for many models it entails partial redesign, if not complete.

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          • Neil Merryweather
            SMF Supporters
            • Dec 2018
            • 5185
            • London

            #20
            Originally posted by Neil Merryweather
            doh! sorry hit send without typing!

            In the scheme of things, business-wise, revising and re-scaling digitally is still a lot less investment than making a completely different set of tooling for injection moulding.

            But I think it's most likely that we will see this kind of thing from new companies- I don't forsee Tamiya or Airfix dumping their injection moulding operations anytime soon......

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            • Guest

              #21
              Originally posted by Neil Merryweather
              doh! sorry hit send without typing!
              You can modify your posts with the Edit button at the lower left

              Originally posted by Neil Merryweather
              In the scheme of things, business-wise, revising and re-scaling digitally is still a lot less investment than making a completely different set of tooling for injection moulding.
              Of course. I was just saying that for 3D printing, it’s not as simple as is often thought.

              Originally posted by Neil Merryweather
              But I think it's most likely that we will see this kind of thing from new companies- I don't forsee Tamiya or Airfix dumping their injection moulding operations anytime soon......
              If they do adopt it, I suppose it will probably be for pretty much what Ian suggested at the start: for options that the purchaser may or may not want. But they’d have to be able to do this in reasonable time, because if given the choice between, say, buying a plastic kit plus a conversion set (resin, 3D-printed or whatever) for a certain amount of money, that you can have in your possession in a few days, or a plastic kit with made-to-order parts that will cost less but take weeks or months to get to you, most people will probably go for the first option.

              Comment

              • Tim Marlow
                SMF Supporters
                • Apr 2018
                • 18901
                • Tim
                • Somerset UK

                #22
                Interesting thoughts here, but my take is that the “digital print “ model may well work on a completely different business arrangement. You may end up with design houses, print shops and distribution networks, rather than the current large scale production factory set up doing everything.
                Take a look at this.....
                www.kickstarter.com/projects/city-of-jordoba-3d/city-of-jordoba-3d-printable-terrain-by-otus-and-lovecraft
                Using this type of arrangement, you could buy your files, port them to a local print shop, and pick the item up when printed.
                Whatever we get from this revolution, you can bet that it will come along faster than you think, and be not quite what you will be expecting....look at what happened to the wet film market and how fast it happened....

                Comment

                • Ian M
                  Administrator
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 18266
                  • Ian
                  • Falster, Denmark

                  #23
                  That is not a bad idea and very much the kind of direction I was thinking, Not so much in the by the data and print/get printed by yourself but the buy the bits you need/want.
                  The earlier comment about not always easy to just scale things up and down, my guess ir that if the model is made to the smallest scale, scaling it up would not give the same detail issues. But would that only be an issue if you where aiming at scale thicknesses in things? I have no idea. lol.

                  PS, I edited the HTTPS: bit out so the link works.
                  Group builds

                  Bismarck

                  Comment

                  • Neil Merryweather
                    SMF Supporters
                    • Dec 2018
                    • 5185
                    • London

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Tim Marlow
                    Interesting thoughts here, but my take is that the “digital print “ model may well work on a completely different business arrangement. You may end up with design houses, print shops and distribution networks, rather than the current large scale production factory set up doing everything.
                    Take a look at this.....
                    www.kickstarter.com/projects/city-of-jordoba-3d/city-of-jordoba-3d-printable-terrain-by-otus-and-lovecraft
                    Using this type of arrangement, you could buy your files, port them to a local print shop, and pick the item up when printed.
                    Whatever we get from this revolution, you can bet that it will come along faster than you think, and be not quite what you will be expecting....look at what happened to the wet film market and how fast it happened....
                    I think that's exactly the point.
                    To paraphrase Mr Spock- , - 'it's modelmaking, Tim, but not as we know it.........'
                    Also don't forget that the hobby modelmakers of tomorrow will be much more tech-savvy and most likely will have been building digital models at school!
                    There are already free models of all our favourite tanks, designed for wargames scales and therefore printable in their hundreds if you so desire(and have access to a 3D printer).
                    I have a load of Warhammer type stuff downloaded but my son grew out of it......
                    At least it doesn't take up space in the loft!

                    Comment

                    • JR
                      • May 2015
                      • 18273

                      #25
                      Some of us have enough trouble with a normal printer , let alone something that could possible produce a model !

                      Comment

                      • Steve Jones
                        • Apr 2018
                        • 6615

                        #26
                        Which ever way the kit is produced we will end up kit bashing it anyway. The fun will be having your own printer churning out rivets and styrene strips. Over to you Mr T.

                        Comment

                        • Neil Merryweather
                          SMF Supporters
                          • Dec 2018
                          • 5185
                          • London

                          #27
                          here it is , the future....
                          free to download from a site called Thingiverse
                          Search and download free 3D printable objects for your projects, from prototypes to home improvements.


                          Click image for larger version

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                          Comment

                          • Neil Merryweather
                            SMF Supporters
                            • Dec 2018
                            • 5185
                            • London

                            #28
                            This is created for 1-100 scale and most likely for FDM printers with a nozzle size of 0.4mm, which means there can be no detail smaller than that as the printer can't print it
                            So Jakko's point about scale is absolutely correct here.
                            But if you have the ability there is no reason why you couldn't add in finer detail digitally for a resin SLA printer with higher definition
                            or re design the wheels for a different mark
                            or remove the tracks and add your own individually printed links........
                            or print the parts at 1-6 scale....
                            It's the same stuff, just different tools

                            Comment

                            • Neil Merryweather
                              SMF Supporters
                              • Dec 2018
                              • 5185
                              • London

                              #29
                              just thinking......
                              remember the fashion for 'wedgie' dioramas a few years ago?
                              This would be the perfect place to start if you had a bust of Michael Wittmann and you wanted a bit of a setting for it- scale the turret or even just the cupola up to 1-9 or whatever and bingo!
                              You can super-detail to your heart's content by manual means, but here you have the bare bones for free,more or less.
                              It would certainly pay a model club to pool their money and buy a printer and then members could just provide their own plastic for the printer. You can buy a kilo of PLA for as little as £20-even less.
                              How many injection-moulded models would you get to the kilo?

                              It's like Pringles -once you start you can't stop!

                              Comment

                              • Neil Merryweather
                                SMF Supporters
                                • Dec 2018
                                • 5185
                                • London

                                #30
                                well I thought I had better put my money where my mouth is , and of course up close it's not pretty at all.....Click image for larger version

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                                at 1-100 it will look fine, but maybe not at 1-9........
                                But then it's just a question of finding a more detailed model, and maybe you pay for it, but then you can print as many Tigers as you want.
                                just sayin....

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