Adventures in 3D printing...

[Guest]

very true - but then I used software that needed dedicated workstations & a mainframe to back it up. Even now decent 3-D software isn't free

There seems to be a number of free (as in beer) CAD programs, but I’ve not tried any beyond OpenSCAD. If you were used to AutoCAD, maybe Tinkercad would work for you, though?

To make accurate models, you need accurate drawings - I have no idea where you would get those - despite what people think, you can't generate accurate models from small scale general arrangement drawings

That, though, is the problem modellers face anyway regardless of whether you’re trying to build something in a computer for 3D printing or in plastic card and rod. And you can apply the same fudges to the former as you would for the latter.

it may be possible to let it settle and the do the same UV curing, but we never tried.

I think that on another forum where this was discussed, it was mentioned that you can put it in sunlight (or under UV lamp) to harden the resin, then separate it from the alcohol.

I hate to be constantly pouring cold water on everyone's optimistic hopes for 3D printing, as it clearly IS the future, it's just not as easy as they would have you believe. The trouble is the sales people never tell you the whole story-I'm sure the garages and sheds of the world are littered with dust-covered 3D printers

Very likely, yes. Like I said earlier, one of the reasons I don’t have one is because I know 3D modelling is difficult, and nearly always have a hard time making anything come out the way I have it in mind. And, if I’m honest, I get mildly annoyed at people who show off their 3D-printed creations as if it’s just another modelling skill. Which it probably is to them, because they’re far more skilled in 3D modelling than I am, but I honestly have no clue how to draw a lot of the things I would want to make in any software I’ve tried

[Guest]

Most interesting thread, but not for me, I have enough trouble getting a normal printer to behave ! God only knows what would happen with a 3d version.:fearful:

[stillp]

You'd probably set fire to it John.
Pete

[Isitme]

I agree with all the comments posted here, at one time I was going to go 'balls to the walls' over 3D printing, got the books, downloaded a free CAD drawing program and then common sense started to settle in before I totally commited to buying a machine and making it into an ornament.
I have been looking at brass etching for my own projects, I have the materials, all I need now is the time to actually prepare the drawings to a standard the fits and will allow me to proceed. I also do my own resin casting, but again some of the parts are not as easy as they seem at first glance. But again could I just scratchbuild what I need. The idea of producing your own items in your mind is great, but when it comes down to actually getting you hands dirty, that is when you meet the problems. The prime point is think first not only of what you want to build/produce but the expense of haveing that £300-400 ornament.
Mike.

[Isitme]

Most interesting thread, but not for me, I have enough trouble getting a normal printer to behave ! God only knows what would happen with a 3d version.:fearful:

You would get a slap....:tears-of-joy:
Mike.

[Guest]

I have enough trouble getting a normal printer to behave !

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1367868899681832965

[Bobby74]

I'm surprised we don't hear of more clubs getting together to fund one to maximise the output. I guess the truth is you need someone who is keen enough to make the printing itself their hobby for some time while they learn it.
I now have my own FDM printer which was (AMAZINGLY) a redundancy gift from my job- (better than a carriage clock!), and I use it now as a freelancer, but the data comes from the designers. I do have limited 3D CAD skills and I have made many a tool-holder and household gadget or fix (replaced the coffee percolator knob for instance- big deal...).
I am not someone who is into selling things so I do not plan to go down that route. Those who follow my builds will have seen some of the things I have 3D printed, including the circular base for my Scots Grey Charge diorama. But I must stress I have been doing this for YEARS, and even in a professional context it probably took me (and my team of younger people) 6 months to be able to get quality prints reliably most times. Admittedly that was in the early days of affordable printers- even in a business context we waited about ten years before we were confident enough to invest in a machine of our own. I do wish I could learn digital sculpting, but my old brain struggles with a new phone or change of internet provider these days, so I am not optimistic...
I DO plan eventually to get one of the new 'affordable' resin printers, but we are still talking £250-£300, plus the issue of the smell of the resin in the house, so I am waiting until I can see some in person before I dive in.
If anyone is serious I suggest they wait until Lockdown is lifted and go to one of the trade fairs to see the variety on offer, and actually understand what is involved with running one, and in the meantime there are plenty of reviewers on YouTube and such .

The resin printers are indeed getting cheaper and due to the advances with the type of LCD lights for curing between layers, the time for each layer is coming down to 1-2 seconds rather than 10-15. Also, water washable resin, so less IPA and therefore cost.
I guess the point of my original post (and all of the replies here have been really valuable) is that I was trying to gauge the availability of really good STL and OBJ files out there so I could download/buy and then print things like a decent set of exhaust cans for an F-15 or decent landing gear. Therefore buy once and use many times. What I’ve concluded (at least for now) is that there is little if anything out there that currently means I would not continue to use after-market resin parts. It may be I’m looking in the wrong place which, again, was what I was trying to ascertain.
Surely over the coming months/small number of years this is going to become more accessible and we will get to a place where we can print at home what we buy from Res-Kit and Aries etc?

[GerryW]

As in all 'new' technologies, the price will come down considerably (I can remember when the first DVD players were well over £1000) just waiting is all, plus the quality will go up.

[Guest]

decent landing gear

Would that support a model? I’m not sure I’d put my faith in it …

[Guest]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1367868899681832965

Yes that sums it up perfectly.:nerd:

[Guest]

You'd probably set fire to it John.
Pete

That would be a strong possibility Pete.

[Robosmith]

To be honest, if you did CAD then you would probably be in the best position to actually make use of it, as you actually have the skills to make a 3D drawing of the parts you would want to print out. Unlike just about everyone else, who needs to develop those skills first, on software that all seems to have been designed by people who have never given a thought to usability or discoverability in their lives.

Most of the software is made for nerds by nerds. That's my realm and I'm ticked off with how unfriendly blender is. It's THE software to use for 3D modeling and it's entirely built around keyboard short cuts with mazes of menus and weird icons to work through else where. It's a mess but that's the nature of open source software much of this relies on or builds off of.

I've been 3D printing at home for a year now and I've run into my fair share of problems. As an amateur the first issue is it's a hobby not a time save or a quick fix. You will need to invest hours into getting your machines to work how you want them to and every time you switch out material you're going to have to fiddle again. Your filament might have a different constitution (It's cheaply made in China...) or your resin might cure slightly faster/slower than the last batch. Resin is the only way to go for model making unless you're looking to make internal skeletons for things on a FDM printer than cover it completely afterwards. Resin is a hazardous to work with and putting it in the spare room alone isn't enough to avoid serious health risks. You might not mind the fumes from the printer but uncured resin on gloves and kitchen roll in your bin will slowly creep out. Good way to mess up your lungs and get headaches so I wouldn't recommend it. I haven't touched IPA for cleaning only water and that's going to need disposing of as well. You can cure it but it can't go down the drain after no matter how well you filter it. IPA can be filtered and reused time and time again if you want but it smells even worse than the resin and is a fire hazard. Resin 3D printing is dangerous and while many people like to say it's the future it has to solve that problem first. If you can't print a model without touching uncured resin, checking for failed prints/emptying the tank to check and have it come out the other end cleaned and cured ready to paint it's not viable for the mainstream hobby. Resin is an annoying material to work with when it's purchased over the counter. Working with it raw is beyond 95% of model kit builders either through lack of interest or lack of ability despite the interest.

As for a club investing in one, not worth the money unfortunately. Someone still has to be the tea boy and do all the work printing. The costs of printing isn't cheap outside of the material needed either and you will be needing to constantly buy disposable items for clean up adding to the cost on top of your initiate investment. Prints will fail to print randomly, some prints just won't ever work no matter how well you know your machine or how well you support them and you don't want Terry turning up asking you to print an entire warhammer army. The basic resin printer is the Elegoo mars line at the moment and sits at about £250 for the pro version. Assuming 10 people buy in and you do one print a day you're going to struggle to print more than 10 28mm miniatures per build plate. If the tea boy is willing to do all this every day for free just so he can get his 1 day of up of printing up to 10 miniatures he's not got his head screwed on right. Prints take between 5-12 hours on the best quality setting and then you have to wash and cure them. It's a part time job with none of the perks at that point. At least if the paper boy messes up he doesn't have 8 guys breathing down his neck waiting in line and have to pocket the expenses of failed prints or replacement parts.

I covered miniatures in my example because home printing anything else is impractical unless you're going into busts and statue sized models (which is THE reason to own a printer, cost effective and massive selection). Printing large single surface parts requires intense attention to detail in your printers set up. If your build plate is even slightly off angle you're going to have a warp and you still need to cure it in a way which keeps it perfectly level. You can break kits down into smaller more managable pieces like a standard model kit if you want to spend a month printing what you could pick up from the shop for 30 quid instead I suppose. You're going to need a larger than standard resin printer for things like plane wings or decent sized tank bodies. which is about 4 times the cost of the usual models people use at home. I think it's £600-800 for the next size up Elegoo model, which will cure faster to cut printing times down but has the same resolution as the standard model (4k over a larger area so it even outs).

Project creep becomes dangerous when you have a printed as well. Since you already paid for the resin you don't have a cost associated with the things you print as you print them. Today's must have item is tomorrow's backlog when that really cool new release catches your eye... Far too easy to clog up shelves with would be projects

[Robosmith]

Sorry for the double post, I can't go back and edit the one above and forgot to quote this.

The resin printers are indeed getting cheaper and due to the advances with the type of LCD lights for curing between layers, the time for each layer is coming down to 1-2 seconds rather than 10-15. Also, water washable resin, so less IPA and therefore cost.
I guess the point of my original post (and all of the replies here have been really valuable) is that I was trying to gauge the availability of really good STL and OBJ files out there so I could download/buy and then print things like a decent set of exhaust cans for an F-15 or decent landing gear. Therefore buy once and use many times. What I’ve concluded (at least for now) is that there is little if anything out there that currently means I would not continue to use after-market resin parts. It may be I’m looking in the wrong place which, again, was what I was trying to ascertain.
Surely over the coming months/small number of years this is going to become more accessible and we will get to a place where we can print at home what we buy from Res-Kit and Aries etc?

Current screens are 4-8 seconds to cure depending on the resin. Mono screens half that. I covered water washable resin and it's more expensive so if you can filter your IPA you're meeting about in the middle cost wise.

Historicals and real world subjects have very little support out there. Since most people into them are older folk who are barely able to use a computer to begin with the market isn't there for it. You find small groups here and there or one guy who's designed his own stuff and might be willing to share it but that's pretty rare too. Catalogs will grow over time and slowly fill in but I expect commercial 3D printing to take over in that department. Either castings of 3D prints or 3D prints direct from company printers.

I don't see it becoming more accessible any time soon. It's already as simple as it can get technology wise to print things. The improvements will be based on speed of printing when they need to be based on safety when printing. Better ways to remove prints and wash them especially. The whole industry outside of one company is based in China, making things as cheaply as possible for a massive mark up. Health and safety isn't very high up their priority list and it's unlikely to change any time soon for resin. FDM printing is going to appeal to the mainstream wanting to make coat pegs and TV remote holders since those are things everyone needs replacing or creating. FDM might see some better safety features due to being a fire hazard when things go wrong (and even then some companies don't turn on the software option which shuts down the machine if it loses connection to the heat censor and leads it to push more and more heat into the hot end). But resin is unfortunately a hobby machine with very few practical uses outside of that.

[Neil Merryweather]

Brilliantly put and by someone with actual experience. Thank you for taking the time to write all that- I was feeling like the voice of doom. I especially like your points about clubs buying one- I would definitely have become the teaboy!
Very interesting what you say about the Elegoo-I was looking at that for myself because I have professional experience on the Form 1 (until I was made redundant and went freelance) so I don't have ready access to resin printing now. I think I will pass for now.....

[boatman]

WELL OK GUYS ive read through this whole thread an i admit that i understand point .99% of it so for me way to complex an for me scratch building with my own two hands is the way to go for me an either that or buying the kit an done with it as this is modeling is suppose to be a hobby to enjoy an 3D building in just my opinion the machine is doin all the building an not you so for me no thanks an i think the only thing ive got built in 3D is my water tank for my steam unit but this is just my opinion
chris