Scale Model Shop

**Guest** · 22 October 2011, 23:18

Building the forward Mast for the Citadel.

Easier than I thought so far, especially if you use the CAD drawings.

As you can see the mast is built out of 4 sides of styrene, the top mast resin piece is supplied by Fleetscale. Think I will drill out the centre to remove some of the weight, ah, maybe not, I have to get the shaft for the radar motor through that.

Not glued, starting on the base now.

**spanner570** · 23 October 2011, 19:19

I've just had a look at the blog, very interesting read. I will be following the progress as I too am having a bash at scratch building.....

Nothing as complicated as this, I'm just doing a derelict farm!

Good luck with the build.

Ron

**Guest** · 24 October 2011, 07:13

Hi Ron,

Glad you enjoy the blog, I'm really enjoying the scratch build, I am at some stage going to do a scratch build for a dock for 1 of my 1/350 Bismark's, so will be interested to hear how you go with the scratch builds on the farms.

I am still not happy with cutting styrene when scratch building, I keep looking at the Tamiya scriber, but blades don't seem easy to get. I use a 10A scalpel at present, bought 150 blades off ebay for a fiver, but I go through on average a blade a day.

**spanner570** · 24 October 2011, 08:50

Hi Darren,

Yes, I'm having fun too. It is new to me and hopefully, will give me a new dimension for displaying models.

I did a diorama for my 1/350 Bismark on here a while back, it's in a Norwegian fjord. Nothing elaborate, but it showed it off O.K.

I use Swann Morton 10A blades, have you tried the No 11? They have a finer point and are better for that initial stab!

Re. my farm, if you care to have a look, I have a thread running at the minute in the Winter Group Build Sniper called "Flush 'im out..now!"

I would be interested to your comments....

Cheers,

Ron

**Guest** · 24 October 2011, 11:37

Originally posted by \

I am currently building a 1/96 scale Royal Navy Type 23 Frigate, the hull and some parts are by Fleetscale but the majority of the parts are being scratch built.Hopefully this is the correct place to post.

Got me beat with this post.

Somehow the word "Scratchbuilt" seems to have lost it's true and actual meaning- ie, something made from plans/photos/ideas and starting with NO bits from a kit, just hand made stuff, not pre-moulded plastic bits.

It appears that boat builders have a complete section to post their wears in, but just because somebody decides to do a bit of KIT MODIFYING/ KIT BASHING, is it now a "scratchbuilt" item ?

Somehow, this demeans the word "scratchbuilt" to just another model, is this the way the word "scratchbuilt" should be treated, or should it be respected, and not abused, in this manner ?

What do others think of this subject of "scratchbuilding", or is kit modifying, now going to called "scratchbuilding" on this forum ?

If I'm totally out of order here, then, could the moderator please remove my posting.

Forgot to add that the 'mods' have done a decent thing and introduced this section, good to see, but I think it deserves to be treated a bit better than this.

regards radish

**spanner570** · 24 October 2011, 12:12

As I was the instigator in asking for, and thanks to John the site owner, getting 'Scratch building' included on Scale Models I would like to add my thoughts on the subject.....

First his thread title 'part scratch built' conveys to me that it was never intended to be anything but that.

Secondly, Darren did enquire if this was "The correct place to post."

In my book anyone who has the balls to make something free hand out of god knows what, to modify or add to a model is a scratch builder. It doesn't matter to me whether it is a complete off the cuff build, part build or just a funnel, it is the fact that the builder is taking up the challenge of producing something from a piece of card!

Finally radish, whilst I understand what you have written, this is Darren's first go at scratch building and he needs encouragement in his endevours, not to have to read your way over the top post referring to his 'Abuse' of scratch building.

I am sure he will be thoroughly deflated by your post and it's content...I know I would be.

Ron

**Guest** · 24 October 2011, 20:06

Originally posted by \

Got me beat with this post.Somehow the word "Scratchbuilt" seems to have lost it's true and actual meaning- ie, something made from plans/photos/ideas and starting with NO bits from a kit, just hand made stuff, not pre-moulded plastic bits.

It appears that boat builders have a complete section to post their wears in, but just because somebody decides to do a bit of KIT MODIFYING/ KIT BASHING, is it now a "scratchbuilt" item ?

Somehow, this demeans the word "scratchbuilt" to just another model, is this the way the word "scratchbuilt" should be treated, or should it be respected, and not abused, in this manner ?

What do others think of this subject of "scratchbuilding", or is kit modifying, now going to called "scratchbuilding" on this forum ?

If I'm totally out of order here, then, could the moderator please remove my posting.

Forgot to add that the 'mods' have done a decent thing and introduced this section, good to see, but I think it deserves to be treated a bit better than this.

regards radish

Radish, as I stated this is a part scratch built boat NOT fully, as the major superstructures, many parts (the majority in fact) are being scratch built I had thought this was an apt thread to place it in, however if it is deemed incorrect then please remove. . As for considering this to be kit bashing or kit modifying, it is FAR from either, there are NO instructions whatsoever, only thing I have are Jecobin plans and the internet and there is NO kit.

I have NEVER scratch built ANYTHING before, even a ladder let alone whole superstructures, hangers, masts, railings, boxing, detailing etc etc etc and the scratch building that will be involved in getting 1 of these to have turning radars, lights, sounds etc, the soldering it entails positively scares the :censored2: out of me...As I say I am WELL outside of my comfort zone.

I had hoped I had placed my post in the correct area within this forum, as the scratch building I am doing will be complicated (maybe not for you but it sure is for me) and I had hoped I can get advice on my build as I go from seasoned scratch builders, I also hoped this would/will encourage those like me who thought it is not for them, that there are options open to them rather than jumping straight into a frying pan (by the way a complete scratch build, including the hul...way out of my league...for now...I may gain enough experience and ideas from this build to progress onto full at a later stage.

Forgot to add that the 'mods' have done a decent thing and introduced this section, good to see, but I think it deserves to be treated a bit better than this.

:shocking:

Thanks for the support

Originally posted by \

I am sure he will be thoroughly deflated by your post and it's content...I know I would be.

Ron

Nail on the head!

Thanks for the support.

Not tried the No 11, will give those a whirl, thanks.

**Guest** · 24 October 2011, 20:10

Ron, firstly, thanks for annoying the moderators to get a "scratchbuilt section" on the go, well done.

Now, something that has to be clarified here, what does the word "scratchbuilt", actually mean ?

a) you start of with a KIT ( box of bits ), then add one or two small changes and it's suddenly changed into a "scratchbuilt " item ?

b) you start of with a KIT ( box of bits ), use the base as a start point, then add as much as possible to it and then call it "scratchbuilt" ?

c) Take a heap of photos and measurements, draw it (whatever) and proceed to make it from whatever raw materials you have available. Whilst along the way, you discover or find, you can use some bits from different kits, just to give it the 'finished look', these would account for no more than about 10 % of the finished item ?

d) start with a drawing, photo, measurements and then, with whatever raw materials you have on hand, create IT from " scratch" ?

So, once you have decided what the word "scratchbuilt" actually stands for or means, where does the term KIT MODIFYING / BASHING enter this discussion ?

How can the two 'terms' ever be used together ?

These above points, definitely do need clarification from the moderator/s of this forum, or there will forever be endless arguments, about what is "scratchbuilt" and what is actually "kit bashing".

regards radish

**Guest** · 24 October 2011, 21:07

I'm not going to get into a debate over this and will be my last post on this matter, 1 of the reasons I posted here was Under the heading on the forum Scratch building it states.Building your model from scratch or building a kit and thinking "out of the box" by adding your own parts?

I am quite happy for the post to be moved/Deleted.

As for the model.....

In the mean time if anybody is interested, my blog is upto date.

Forward Citadel, with wiper motors installed, and lower walkways now created out of 1mm styrene, still have the undersides of all the walkways to create the underside "lattice" work of box sections for detail.

Just out on the left of the pic is the base for the Optronics sight system (mostly covered in filler to be honest).

**Guest** · 24 October 2011, 22:38

Starting detailing the Bridge.

Wanted to do this as I want to get the roof detailing done aswell, this will determine the clearance for the Pulleys for the 1008 Radar mounted on the top of the bridge.

Decided to do the consoles in 2 sections, the flat parts 1st then angled to go ontop (should make more sense when I get a little further on in the build.

As you can see I have marked the areas for detailing, I don't have any L bracket styrene in 0.5 so I made my own...As I do not have the exact measurements of the consoles I am working from detailed photos working at 5mm x 5mm for the base in 0.5mm Styrene.

Then the console's on top, the free standing units are 5mm x 7mm.

More detail marking.

**spanner570** · 25 October 2011, 08:33

Darren, just thinking ahead a bit, what is the bridge deck floor made of? Is it just deck paint or teak planking?

Will you trace where things go and do the deck first, prior to fixing the bits and bobs? Be a s*d to do the deck after! lol

Ron

Thanks for your positive comments on my scratch build!

**Guest** · 25 October 2011, 09:38

Well i'm enjoying my scratchbuilt attempt at the SG1 prometheus for the SIG build so much i'm going to have a bash at a boat next.

My idea is to make a 4 (ish) foot long crab boat (not unlike the deadliest catch variety) with all the crab pots, cranes, lights and some improvised 1/35 figures.

I'll be coming back to this thread for ideas about decks and cabins and also be searching the forum a bit more for other ideas.

I like the way your model is progressing, you can get the jist of how it's going to look just from the raw parts which is quite impressive. i'm looking forward to seeing it completed. ...

..you might even get the odd PM from me asking how you got around certain things (so i don't look even more dense on the forum heh heh

)

One more thing .... if i could find a ready built hull ....i'd quite happily use it .... the way we build stuff is not a science its an art and nothings written in stone .... well ... maybe heiroglyphics

**Guest** · 25 October 2011, 19:03

Originally posted by \

Darren, just thinking ahead a bit, what is the bridge deck floor made of? Is it just deck paint or teak planking?Will you trace where things go and do the deck first, prior to fixing the bits and bobs? Be a s*d to do the deck after! lol

Ron

Thanks for your positive comments on my scratch build!

Pleasure Ron

As for deck of the bridge....picture this if you will!!

I shall TRY to answer your query...good point, 1 thankfully that has been in my mind.

Looking at the front of the bridge on the roof, left hand side is a 1008 Nav Radar, which I intend to have working (well going round, a working 1/96 radar I think is beyond me), for this to work I am going to have to come up with a belt pulley system, 1 of the chaps on the forum I frequent (ModelwarshipsUK) came up with the idea of using the pulley system out of an old defunct CD player, this must go on the inside UNDER the roof which will be covered by the overhead bits n bobs, switches pipes etc, but this only gives me 5-6mm minus 0.5mm for the cover!

However I need access to this should the belt snap, as all the S/S (superstructures) will be removable for access to the electronics (this is generally the way it is done - will have to work on hiding joints), as I hate joints showing (check the work around for the quarterdeck on the blog for access to the rudder) I am thinking of making the items attached to the floor of the bridge only so everything including the shaft and pulley comes away. Hard to explain at the mo, hope that makes sense..

Carrying on...as I say I intend to cut away the flooring you see in the bridge, making my own (it is a grey non slip material in the ship so fine chinchilla sand mixed in with the paint), so at present all the markings on the flooring are only to get positions I will position the bridge on the hull, place the flooring there then lift the bridge.

It's a bit of an ambitious idea when I think about it, may not work....all depends on finding a small enough pulley system, my 1st CD pulley was far too big, but I've put feelers out at work (will come down to the size of the gromit, if I can get that, this is doable I reckon), the roof section with the detailing will be fixed to the system for the pulley and held in (possibly with magnets again), this way there are NO joints.:emo6:

Hope that long answer to your query hasn't got you reaching for the nearest shotgun...

CDW, feel free to drop me a line, always happy to help if I can, she does not progress as quickly as I like due to work, 2 Border Collies and a Labrador, oh and 1 of those wife thingy's (mind if you read my blog on the citadel, she rescued me twice). Most of my building is done during Soaps, X Factor n that dancing thing...None of which I can stand, my 1 remaining brain cell rebels.

Not much of a chance for modelling this evening, huge thunderstorm knocked the lights out, got a small amount done before the power tripped though, all to cut, only dropped into place so ignore the gaps etc..

See my blog for my intention with regards the bridge and how I am going to access the radar. http://pittnuma-type23.blogspot.com/2011/10/bridge-detailing_25.html

Just hope I'm not getting too ambitious or out of my skill level!!

**Guest** · 26 October 2011, 08:06

Originally posted by \

..... she does not progress as quickly as I like due to work, 2 Border Collies and a Labrador, oh and 1 of those wife thingy's............Most of my building is done during Soaps, X Factor n that dancing thing...None of which I can stand, my 1 remaining brain cell rebels.

Heh heh this rings a bell, I sold up with my business and took an early retirement but we have the Northern Inuit, parrots, snakes, lizards and tarantulas for our sins. I get "my limited time" when that Jeremy Kyle blokes on in the afto and then when those god awful aussie soaps start (if i watch any of those for any length of time i can actually feel my inteligence chip melting)

Scale Model Shop

1/96 Scale Type 23 RN Frigate - part scratch build

1/96 Scale Type 23 RN Frigate - part scratch build

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