Robbe or Engel that is the question

[Guest]

Hi Fellow slaves to a hobby,

This is my first post in here so if i have screwed up i apologise. I am posting here this particular forum as it may have been asked before and answered with a review. Anyway, now i am here i have a question for the collective minds out there. I am currently doing all my research into whats around out there in model sub world and have found the 2 most predominant manufacturers seem to be Robbe and Engel (happy to be corrected by the way). I have been looking at a number of kits, the Robbe U47 and the U2540 and the Engel U177 but the Type VIIC is just a tad to expensive for me. Now for a numpty in the modelling game like me which would be the best choice (dont hold back i wont take offense) I note the Robbe has all the vent holes pre drilled, i dont fancy screwing up a model cos i cant drill straight or something similar, although the quality of what i have seem here and elsewhere with the Engel kits impresses the engineer in me. It would also appear that there are no mods required to the Engel kit straight from the box where as its been suggested that the U47 for example could have a new tower added and brass decking and the Engel static dive system, which most likely takes the cost of the U47 straight into the same region as the U177. Anyway oh sub gurus i thought i would pick your brains as you guys have been into this way longer than me and know what your doing (ok enough gratuitous grovelling) Look forward to hearing from you all.

Regards

Pete

[Guest]

To be honest the Robbe and the Engel kits are not really comparable and, as always you get what you pay for. The Robbe kits are considerably cheaper but are only dynamic divers straight out of the box. To make them into static divers requires quite a bit of modification and upgrading. However for a first time model they are excellent value and can be upgraded with detail according to your pocket.

The Engel kits require very little else to produce a stunning model ready to static dive, but you have to pay for it. The big advantage is that you get everything in the kit and it all goes together out of the box.

It all depends on what you can afford and what you want but you really cannot say one is better than the other, as they are quite different products.

[Guest]

Hi Soggy and welcome to the odd world of Subs :dancing1:

Glad someone else on here is getting into subs, they seem to be getting a little more popular these days.

As Bunker says, the Robbe and Engel are different animals altogether. I started with a Robbe U47, and went onto a Metcalf mouldings Royal Navy "T" class sub, and eventually an Engel Typhoon.

I suppose it comes down to one 2 questions, do you want a "dedicated" submarine, ie the Engels or a surface boat that can dive occasionally.

I mean the Robbe boats are Dynamic divers as Bunker says, which dive quickley under the water for a short period of time, or a proper sub that can stay under the drink for as long as you want.

And secondly how much can you justify in spending. Or how much your other half will stand for before divorce procedings get under way ! :grinball2:

The Robbe boats are good, great to start with and get some experience, and when there done they look good. But when there put alongside an Engel there is no comparison. But they cost a lot less. You can upgrade them with a brass etching set for upper works etc, and you can add Engel Diving tanks to make it a true "static" diver. But the cost soon mounts up.

Where as the Engel is a complete kit, ( I use kit in the loose sense, they still need major adjustments ) and when its done they are really impressive and are worth the money. They can be tricky. Cutting the holes in the deck is a real pain, and a thorn in the side but its not too hard, and if you cock it up theres always fillers !:grinball2:

I would say if you want to start, get some experience get the Robbe, but if you like a challenge, ( not insurmountable either ) get the Engel. IF you get stuck there about 5 of us on here that are sub nuts. Check out my thread, and Manksters, Solos which is an Engel U boat and ADJ who has a typhoon as well.

Go for it, you wont regret it that often ! :grinball2:

Paul

[Guest]

Hi soggy and welcome,

What is your modelling experience ??? are you new to modelling, or have you been doing it for a while ??.

I agree with the above, what sub do you want, V11 , 1X , XX1, modern Nuke etc, etc. as this will depend on which manufacturer you choose and cost etc.

:regards: Sub.

[Guest]

Hi Subzero, Screwloose and Bunker,

Thanks for your valued input, i need all the help i can get (or so my missus says anyway :-). To answer your question Subzero up till the time i joined up i was a prolific builder, umm but that was OMG 28 years ago ( gawd it feels like yesterday hehe) But it was mainly static display stuff, only R/C experience is Balsa aircraft. That said i come from an aeronautical engineering back ground and the ironic thing is i spent most my time working on anti submarine aircraft the P3 Orion hehe. I did note on one of the other threads i think it was that the Engel Akula vent holes have brass inserts so they are all a uniform rectangular shape, (numpty question time again) so does the other Engel kits have this also?? or does ones hand eye co-ordination need to be rather remarkable. There happens to be an Engel kit for sale in Sydney with all sorts of gucci widgets (see us engineers know the right submariner lingo) i will insert the add here and see what your collective experience thinks. "An Engel type IXD2 complete new in box. TAES static diving version. Free flooding slots are rough cut in and this is the only work done to it. Kit is ex germany with 2 750mL piston tanks full TAES control board, motors gearboxes. shafts props and all detail parts including pre built guns. Price ex Germany; was over $2400 but will sell for $1800. Note there is no radio or batteries. Kit is complete down to fibreglass resin and catalyst, microballoons and precast ballast weight. Boat is 78 inches long or 195cm and weighs approx 16kg too big for Aust Post, so is pickup or courier.

:regards:

[Guest]

Hi Soggy, I have just read the article and this one for sale seems to be the standard stuff you get with the Kit from New. Seems the bloke is passing the kit on.

Just looked at Engels website, and from new the TMAX which is the best one will got for 965 Euros, and into Australian Dollars ( if thats where you are ) 1591 Dollars.

Think I would be getting it from Engel brand new , then at least you have a warrenty just in case there are any glitches. Dont know about delivery charges however.

And given your background, I would definately go for the Engel. I think you may find the Robbe pretty easy.

As for the cutting slots etc, its all outlined on the hull already. All you need is a few needle files and a lot of patience! :thinking:

Have a look at Engels site, and if you need to ask any questions, they normally reply asap.

Paul

[Guest]

Hi Subzero, Screwloose and Bunker,Thanks for your valued input, i need all the help i can get (or so my missus says anyway :-). To answer your question Subzero up till the time i joined up i was a prolific builder, umm but that was OMG 28 years ago ( gawd it feels like yesterday hehe) But it was mainly static display stuff, only R/C experience is Balsa aircraft. That said i come from an aeronautical engineering back ground and the ironic thing is i spent most my time working on anti submarine aircraft the P3 Orion hehe. I did note on one of the other threads i think it was that the Engel Akula vent holes have brass inserts so they are all a uniform rectangular shape, (numpty question time again) so does the other Engel kits have this also?? or does ones hand eye co-ordination need to be rather remarkable. There happens to be an Engel kit for sale in Sydney with all sorts of gucci widgets (see us engineers know the right submariner lingo) i will insert the add here and see what your collective experience thinks. "An Engel type IXD2 complete new in box. TAES static diving version. Free flooding slots are rough cut in and this is the only work done to it. Kit is ex germany with 2 750mL piston tanks full TAES control board, motors gearboxes. shafts props and all detail parts including pre built guns. Price ex Germany; was over $2400 but will sell for $1800. Note there is no radio or batteries. Kit is complete down to fibreglass resin and catalyst, microballoons and precast ballast weight. Boat is 78 inches long or 195cm and weighs approx 16kg too big for Aust Post, so is pickup or courier.

:regards:

Hi soggy...The one I think you have been looking at with the brass inserts is a Scale Ships Hull only not an Engel kit, I have a Full Engel Akula to build, its quite a nice kit and the quality is good, Not true scale but OK for most, I would tend to be wary of a started sub kit, as a lot of them have been " mucked up " by someone who doesn't understand how to do it right hence the re-sale, and it can take a hell of a lot of fixing afterwards. If you can see it first and check the build and quality of it you might be ok, as screw loose says if you get new then you at least get the warranty and any mistakes would be your own. With your background you should be easily capable of building a good un !

Hope the above is of some use to you.

:regards: Sub

[Guest]

Hi Sub, my apologies for not getting back sooner, but the D.O.D here decided i needed to be somewhere else for a wee bit. Bastards, fancy work getting in the way of ones hobbies hehe. Anyway, i have almost fully made my mind up to go for a new Engel U177 Type IX D2. Now the question is, which variant should one go for, all that TAES stuff has me baffled. I will admit i was looking at the one with the TAES system. Only other thing i need to know is, what controller should i get as the one i have here i am damn sure was last run up by Moses himself its that old. How many channels are needed and does the kit come with the little actuators or do i get them with the controller, also i know that 40Mhz is popular in the UK but here i am sure its 29 Mhz, with the new 2.4Ghz ones out now also. Which is best suited for a submarine i guess is what i need to know. I dont want a computerised whizz bang unit if i dont need one. So bottom line, Ole Soggy is cashed up and damn near ready to reduce the German national defecit by buying a kit. The rate of exchange is most favourable to the Aust dollar atm which is great. Anyway lads any help will be most appreciated. Cheers yet again.

Soggy

[Guest]

Hi Soggy, I have just read the article and this one for sale seems to be the standard stuff you get with the Kit from New. Seems the bloke is passing the kit on.Just looked at Engels website, and from new the TMAX which is the best one will got for 965 Euros, and into Australian Dollars ( if thats where you are ) 1591 Dollars.

Think I would be getting it from Engel brand new , then at least you have a warrenty just in case there are any glitches. Dont know about delivery charges however.

And given your background, I would definately go for the Engel. I think you may find the Robbe pretty easy.

As for the cutting slots etc, its all outlined on the hull already. All you need is a few needle files and a lot of patience! :thinking:

Have a look at Engels site, and if you need to ask any questions, they normally reply asap.

Paul

Hey There Paul,

Many thanks for that. Just did the sums with the exchange rate as it is if i were to get the TMAX variant it would cost me AUD$2019.14 Its certainly within my budget which is cool, was just trying to be a tight arse and go for the Robbe, but i have decided i want static with no modifications ergo the Engel kit. That said i am still mystified by all the Gucci little add ons on the Engel website. I have NFI what i would use or need out of all of them, or is the kit by itself completely all i will need?? And i am assuming that any of those add on widgets could be add to the boat at a later date as mods if i chose to ?? Boy i am getting excited at the prospect of this project. Them damn R/C yachts on the local lake are gonna get the shock of there lives when i going hunting them mwahahaha:knight:ummmm i mean join them in peaceful harmony of the water, bollocks up scope open outer doors fire one. Hmm i am getting in touch with a past life methinks hehe. Anyway, i best be orf or the war office may crack it with me and decorate the house with certain parts of my anatomy that i am rather attached to, she is gonna do that when she hears how much i finally spend on a "toy" to quote her.Cheers

Soggy

[Guest]

I would get the TAE kit. I dont think the TAES component works very well for the extra money. Its meant to keep the boat at a predetermined depth when stationary, but i have not seen it work correctly - go for it though if you have the money. The TMAX is ok but you need 3 channels to control it rather than 1 also with TMAX you have either full surface or submerged trim - nothing in between, you can't choose to be partially submerged like with the TAE system.

2.4Ghz does not work under water. 40Mhz is legal in Aus but you only have a 2 or 3 legal frequencies (I think), so go with 29mhz. the kit does not come with servo, you get with your radio or bought separately. You'll need a minimum of 5 channels if you go with TAE or TAES, 7 if you go with TMAX. Add an extra channel for each extra function, like independent throttle control, sound etc. I'd go for a 8 channel minimum set for flexibilty, they are not much more than 6 ch sets. They should all be computerised. If 40 MHz is an option, then this band will give you the option of choosing the Robbe or Graupner expandable tray type trasmitters which are the prefered options for multifuction subs and boats

[Guest]

There are also the American manufacturers too. To wet your appetite I'd recommend Small World Model's range of subs.

Welcome to Small World Models

and please have read of other people's builds:-

Submarines

[Guest]

Nice one Soggy, glad you have decided to take the plunge!!! :grinball2:

I bought the TAE Typhoon, with the view of upgrading it in the future if I fancied it. I think you can add the extras on :thinking:

But to be honest, I had my Typhoon in the lake today, and the only thing extra I have put on is a Subtech Pitch controller for the Dive planes, and it works well. I can make it hover, ( as long as your ballast is spot on ) run at periscope depth, and run fully submerged. So not sure what else I expect of it to be honest.

The pitch controller is pretty responsive, as are the planes, obviousley as long as its moving. So I might just stick with what I have.

I use the Robbe F-18 computerised handset. I have added a few extra switches etc, and I find it great for the subs. Its practically infinately expandable. Just tell your other half once you buy it you wont have to buy another one ! :shhhh:The new 2 Ghz sets I use for remote planes, there great but I wouldnt touch one for a boat. I have had some bother with dampness and signal loss due to water. The last thing I would want to introduce on a sub!

Paul