Vallejo Primer From Hell !!!!

[monica]

all very good point ,Barry,to take into account when spraying,


and always an off change of getting a bad lot as well,or even


it has thickened a little just with the air getting in it,

[Guest]

Call me Mr Picky, but all of these "you should roll it, not shake it", "you must have had a bad batch", filter it before use", "chant 1940s Surrey batting averages whilst shaking it" lead me to believe that maybe, just maybe, there are better primers out there?. Knowing what I know about acrylic paints, the concept of a hard drying, flat surfaced acrylic primer is a big ask, especially one that can pass through an airbrush with a nozzle smaller than a gnat's chuff. After spending £15 odd for Vallejo primer, and having had ONE spray job that went without a single hitch (and about 5 that needed mid-spray cleans, etc), I consider myself taught. Their paint is great, but I'll never be buying their primer again!

[monica]

well along theses lines John,I have been told that shaking it to much can make the paint split or separate,


wil over shaking and one thing also


with the shipment how do we know how,long it stat at the docks in a shipping container in 40c plus,so its been cooked,


before we even get it,


as out hear its always so late to get into the shops,because of holdup in shipping,


I did once use a bottle of AK,which worked fine with a few drops of thinners added,but was a strange color for a black,

[Guest]

Call me Mr Picky, but all of these "you should roll it, not shake it", "you must have had a bad batch", filter it before use", "chant 1940s Surrey batting averages whilst shaking it" lead me to believe that maybe, just maybe, there are better primers out there?. Knowing what I know about acrylic paints, the concept of a hard drying, flat surfaced acrylic primer is a big ask, especially one that can pass through an airbrush with a nozzle smaller than a gnat's chuff. After spending £15 odd for Vallejo primer, and having had ONE spray job that went without a single hitch (and about 5 that needed mid-spray cleans, etc), I consider myself taught. Their paint is great, but I'll never be buying their primer again!

And therein lies my complaint. The primer, straight out of the bottle is the only thing that hasn't given me grief. Their paints have been very hit and miss. More indication of their inconsistency.


I am going to be priming some stuff today with the Vallejo black, so we'll see how it goes.

[Guest]

Ha ha! But this is the problem, some folks are spare hassles with one and nor the other, and vice versa, seems obvious to me that summat is in need of consistency!

[Guest]

Ha ha! But this is the problem, some folks are spare hassles with one and nor the other, and vice versa, seems obvious to me that summat is in need of consistency!

I agree with your logic. With practice, if there was only one or perhaps two types of problem which occurred infrequently, most people would accept that.


But there is quite a wide range of types of problems that can occur in airbrushing, probably because there are many variables in airbrushing compared to, for example, the average carpentry or interior decoration job. This probably explains the fact that whenever a problem occurs, it is often a different type from yesterday and from the day before. This inconsistency is probably what frustrates people most.


For example, if you were decorating the walls of your lounge with one colour on one wall and another on the other walls, you would not expect one of the colours to misbehave, like peeling off the next day. And you would not expect a different type of problem to happen to the other colour, like failing to dry or being spotty, especially when your neighbour had no problems. And when you went to cut a piece of wood you would not expect you saw to suddenly become blunt overnight. Airbrushing behaves a bit like that to quite a few people.

[Guest]

I don't think that the airbrush is as much a variable as we might think, certainly compared with what we shove through them! For example, you could fire up your compressor and fill your airbrush with water, and spray day and night, hot and cold, it'll never clog. The same goes for Indian ink, waster colour, etc. The main problem, I suspect, is that the acrylic paint has started to cure, and that's when the lumps, or even an uneven thickening of the paint, appear. Primers need extra ingredients and properties that facilitate their effectiveness as a surface on which to paint, for a start, they need to grip to the surface of the model. Anyone who has painted an un-primed model with acrylics, will know how much harder it is to get a good finish. I primed my first model with a rattle can, and all went smoothly. When I graduated to A/B and Vallejo primer, I felt I took a step backwards, and as someone to whom paint (of all sorts) was my professional medium, I have to say that I was sceptical of the concept from the outset. My first use of it was the green primer on my Churchill, (my second completed model) which went fine. That was clearly a one-off, as, despite trying again, I never replicated the situation of filling my airbrush with primer and spraying the model until it had a beautiful, hard, slightly etched surface. Not one for banging my head against the wall, I decided that rattle cans were for me. I know they stink the house out, but I have an old house, with a basement, a perfect place to spray. In the spring and summer, I do it outside.


Sounds like that new Badger stuff is a move forward, but what a price!

[Guest]

I agree with John - whenever we have problems with spraying, we always think it's the airbrush causing it. Usually the cry is "clean it again & again & again!"


I really don't see why this should be. All of us who use an airbrush will have a decent cleaning regime, so the main variable is the paint. Poorly mixed, incorrectly thinned paint will always lead to frustration.


I know that it's tough in today's world to use either rattle cans or cellulose based primers, but the fact remains that these will always provide a better surface for applying paint.


Acrylics simply "sit" on the surface, there's no chemical bonding taking place. At best you can hope for a degree of shrinkage or tightening as the acrylic paint dries.


But that causes its own problems. How many people complain about acrylic paints rubbing off during handling, especially on raised edges? That's because the paint has become thinner there due to the tightening.


It's just my view, but more time should be taken at this vitally important stage. Pretty much all the known issues with using acrylic paints come from a poorly primed surface - other than tip clogging, inconsistent spraying, pigment separation et al! But those can be solved by opening the wallet yet again

[Guest]

Acrylics simply "sit" on the surface, there's no chemical bonding taking place. At best you can hope for a degree of shrinkage or tightening as the acrylic paint dries.

Nail. Head!

[Guest]

I fully agree with John and Patrick. My post was referring to the "airbrush method of painting" as a system, compared to other systems. I agree that it is the paint component of that system that mainly causes the problems.


On my point earlier that airbrushing can be avoided in suitable situations by brushing with bristles, to this can be added the use of a spray can (as you both mentioned). I like to use Tamya's Synthetic Lacquer (the solvent is Cellulose Thinners) which is in a spray can and produces a very tough (and glossy) coat, reliably and quickly every time. I am going to use spray cans more often in future


>> Would both of you tell me what brand, and type (acrylic etc.), of spray can you use for priming.


>> Halford's primer is sometimes mentioned. Is that good?


I have been looking at other brands of spray paints:


Montana: 26 colours water based, 96 others (substance not listed).


Humbrol: About 10 (solvent based).


Kobra (acrylic) Well over 100.


Belton/Molotow 150


I have asked most of them for the solvent used and what gives the colour.

[Guest]

[quote="Stevekir, post: 310641, member: 22067"


..........


I have been looking at other brands of spray paints:


Montana: 26 colours water based, 96 others (substance not listed).


Humbrol: About 10 (solvent based).


Kobra (acrylic) Well over 100.


Belton/Molotow 150


I have asked most of them for the solvent used and what gives the colour.


No luck in my quest to find sprayable water-based acrylic paints like those we use (like Vallejo Model Air) but in a spray can. Several suppliers of spray cans did not reply, but Montana did. It is clear that all their spray can paints (and their competitors'), despite having acrylic in their makeup, are volatile solvent based (Nitrocellulose etc.). So no advantage over Tamiya's (otherwise excellent) range of spray paints (all their TS range is volatile solvent based). It seems that if we want a sprayable non-smelly quick drying paint, we must use Vallejo's Model Air (and equivalents) and an Airbrush. I would be the first customer of any model paint manufacturer offering a spray can version.


Or use Vallejo Model Color (and equivalents) in a brush!