Gloss Paint, or Matt Paint + Gloss Coat (Clear Varnish)?

[Guest]

I am starting a 1934 car model which has some gloss black and some gloss British Racing Green (if I can find one) paintwork. I will be using an airbrush rather than the spray cans because they seem rather fierce and uncontrollable, especially on the curved surface of a car body. Being a car, it is essential that the result is highly glossy and perfect with with no bits, dust, hairs etc. Therefore I will be lightly sanding between coats including using Micromesh and finally a polishing compound.

Alclad 2 does not offer a black which is surprising (or a green),).

Which would be better (I normally use Vallejo Model Air acrylic):

Airbrush on a matt black, (eg., Vallejo Black, RLM22, 71.057 but not their Black (Metallic)), and a suitable Model Air green, then some Vallejo clear varnish;

or use a gloss black only for all black coats, Tamiya X-01 Gloss Black (I can't find a suitable gloss green anywhere)?

[Guest]

Steve, try a RC model shop for gloss paints, one near me even does pearlescent paint! Or buy a rattle can from Halfords & decant it for airbrushing.

I'd go for gloss paints all the way, rather than matt with a gloss varnish.

Cheers Patrick

[Guest]

The best British Racing Green mimic i found was Huimbrol number 3 Brunswick Green. I think it's a good match anyway.

Otherwise ebay should have colour matched paints from motor factors, BRG should be easy enough to find, I think Austin, Morris or Jaguar paints had BRG.

Hope this helps

[Ian M]

Well. Alclad do make a gloss black. It is their Black Gloss Base. It is rather good but it can be an expensive way to paint a car.

As far as things that I have tried I would say bite the bullet and buy some Humbrol Enamle paints in gloss. Thinned correctly they spray well, give a good finish and are both cheap(ish) and easy to get hold of!

light coats, rubbing down between and a good polish to finish off!

The original green used for British racing cars was in fact...... Brunswick green. I believe Bentley started that one off. Since when any fast car in dark green was "British Racing Green".

Black and BRG... What car is it Steve?

Ian M

[Guest]

Well. Alclad do make a gloss black. It is their Black Gloss Base. It is rather good but it can be an expensive way to paint a car.As far as things that I have tried I would say bite the bullet and buy some Humbrol Enamle paints in gloss. Thinned correctly they spray well, give a good finish and are both cheap(ish) and easy to get hold of!

light coats, rubbing down between and a good polish to finish off!

The original green used for British racing cars was in fact...... Brunswick green. I believe Bentley started that one off. Since when any fast car in dark green was "British Racing Green".

Black and BRG... What car is it Steve?

Ian M

Thanks folks for the advice. The car is the Revell 1:16 Rolls Royce Phantom II Continental (1934). 7 litre engine! Gorgeous! You can buy a real one in good condition for around +- £250,000

I will practice using enamel paint for the large paint areas of the car body (I haven't used them since I was a teenager). To get me started could I have a few facts and advice:

1. What primer should I use? Is my Vallejo Acrylic Surface Primer OK, or is there one specially for enamel? Humbrol don't sell one.

2. What stuff do I use for thinning? I have some "Perkins Hi grade Enamel Thinners formulated for thinning all enamel finishes." OK? (It smells like White Spirit.)

3. Would the Perkins be suitable for spraying through an AB? Or should I be safe and use Humbrol Enamel Thinner?

4. My AB is a Harder and Steenbeck CR Plus (0.4 mm nozzle). It is a good one (£160). Is it possible that the seals would be damaged by enamels?

5. Is that nozzle size OK for enamels?)

6. I use 20 PSI for Acrylic paint. Is that OK when starting on enamels?

7. What proportion of thinner should I use? 5%, 10%? Or until "like milk"?

8. What do I use for cleaning the AB? The Perkins mentioned above? Or ordinary White Spirit?

9. I plan to use Revell enamel (only because it gives me the exact colour that I want). Is Ravell enamel good stuff?

Sorry about all the questions but answers will help to get me started.

[flyjoe180]

Steve, welcome back to enamels. I'm sure others will have more advice but I will try:

1. I use generic primers from a can from a hardware store suitable for painting on. You can safely paint enamel over an acrylic primer.

2. I use modelling thinners for airbrushing, and only use white spirit (mineral turpentine) for cleaning purposes.

3. Better to be safe with your expensive airbrush and pay for some thinners.

4. The seals won't be damaged by enamel paint or the mineral turps. Lacquer thinner will attack the seals.

5. If your paint is thinned suitably (I find a 1:1 mix works with enamels), you shouldn't have any issues. Enamels are just as versatile as acrylics when used correctly.

6. Not sure about the pressure sorry Steve. Pretty sure you should be okay with a range of pressures, so long as you thin the enamel correctly.

7. 1:1 mix is what I use. The general 'milk' standard seems to work out using the 1:1 mix. Others use slightly more thinner, usual story applies though, the thinner the paint the more coats will be required.

8. Mineral turps/white spirit. You can also fire thinners through. What ever you do though Steve, strip the airbrush after use and clean it well. Enamel is hard to remove when it sets. It is perhaps the biggest drawback for me.

9. No idea about Revell, I am a Humbrol enamel man.

Off you go and spray away dude.

[Ian M]

Well! I had a hunch it was the Rolls. Nice one.

As for your 'couple of questions... I will give my opinion on the ones that I can.

1, Vallejo primer should be OK I have used it before under Enamels. However, don't just let it dry. Leave it to cure for a couple of days. I would also recommend that you give all the panels of the car a very fine rub down to remove the shine off the plastic then wash them well and leave them to dry before priming.

Humbrol do make a 'primer' I believe that it is just a matt grey. Number 2 I think.

2, I use good old White spirit for thinning enamels (I only Use Humbrol so that is clear) I did have some of their thinners but to be honest it stinks and gives me a headache. (mostly from my dear wife moaning about the smell). Any good quality White spirit should be fine.

3, I have no idea! ,lol

4, White spirit is pretty soft as far as thinners go so I doubt that the airbrushes seals will be in peril. It is mainly 'hot' paints and thinners, like cellulose that are a risk.

5, I think you will be OK with the 0,4

6, Different paint types will need different pressure, Give it a go and adjust as needed. It is a pain but after you have sorted it just note it down for the next time.

7, I am very much the "until it is thin enough type of guy, so aim for the "like milk" mix.

8, White spirit will do just nicely.

9, Never used them so I cant answer that one!

Most important with any high finish paint job is practice and prep work. I have seen that you can spray, and very well. So its Bull by the horns time.

Most importantly enamels take time to dry- some times when thinned a long time. Find a large clear plastic box to place over things while they dry- keeps the dust, pet hair and biccy crumbs settling on it to a minimum. LOL

Ian M

[flyjoe180]

Humbrol matt primer is no.1. Others use to-hand greys such as H64.

[The Migrant]

I'm not sure what's available over there but Tamiya do a range of gloss colours in spray cans, and I'm pretty sure there's a BRG in the range. Once decanted from the can they airbrush absolutely superbly, and because they're lacquers they dry very fast and very hard (and very glossy).

[Guest]

I'm not sure what's available over there but Tamiya do a range of gloss colours in spray cans, and I'm pretty sure there's a BRG in the range. Once decanted from the can they airbrush absolutely superbly, and because they're lacquers they dry very fast and very hard (and very glossy).

I will look into that. However, I have been warned that lacquers can damage the seals in an airbrush.

I have found this in the Tamiya range in uk:

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Their site does not state what type of paint it is. But is it really lacquer? Or is it acrylic, or enamel which uses White Spirit (the stinky stuff also used to thin or wipe household paint? (I have messaged Tamiya.)

I have used Tamiya acrylic gloss varnish (X22, "Tamiya Clear") over acrylic matt paint and it also gives a hard glass-like gloss.

So it looks like I have the choice of an enamel, or a Tamiya gloss colour (yes they have a BRG). I'll practice with both on scrap polystyrene. (My favourite testing object is Sainsbury's or Asda's 2 litre clear lemonade bottles which have a shiny surface like poly.)

[The Migrant]

I will look into that. However, I have been warned that lacquers can damage the seals in an airbrush.I have found this in the Tamiya range in uk:

[ATTACH]78090[/ATTACH]

Their site does not state what type of paint it is. But is it really lacquer? Or is it acrylic, or enamel which uses White Spirit (the stinky stuff also used to thin or wipe household paint? (I have messaged Tamiya.)

I have used Tamiya acrylic gloss varnish (X22, "Tamiya Clear") over acrylic matt paint and it also gives a hard glass-like gloss.

So it looks like I have the choice of an enamel, or a Tamiya gloss colour (yes they have a BRG). I'll practice with both on scrap polystyrene. (My favourite testing object is Sainsbury's or Asda's 2 litre clear lemonade bottles which have a shiny surface like poly.)

The TS sprays are synthetic lacquers, so for thinning/cleaning you'll need cellulose/lacquer thinners. I've been spraying lacquers through my airbrushes for years with no issues at all, the only thing to watch for is rubber seals which might be attacked by the cellulose. Most Iwatas, and probably other makes, have teflon seals which are lacquer-resistant.

[Ian M]

From their own web site: http://www.harder-airbrush.eu/infinity/

Infinity CR plus – stylish chrome design

The infinity CR plus features a triple coating of copper, nickel and high-gloss exterior chrome plating. It presents itself not only in high-quality optics, but it is suitable in particular for nickel allergy sufferers as well as those users who have problems with oxidation (tarnishing) of nickel alloys because of hand perspiration. The infinity CRplus models are available with 0.15, 0.2 or 0.4 mm nozzle sets or as two in one variant. An innovative long life needle seal and PTFE seals to the cup screwing and valve are responsible for safe protection against unwanted air and colour output - also in the application of solvent-based paints.

So it looks to me that you have nothing to worry about Steve.

Ian M

[Guest]

For info, here is an edited copy of an exchange of emails between me and Alclad. Read it from the bottom up:

D. ALCLAD REPLY:

It's not designed to be a finish coat. Just a primer.

If you would like to use as a finished coat that will be fine. I would put a klear cote gloss over. 310.

Robert Bunn

Alclad2 lacquers

…………………………..

C. ME:

Thanks very much. But what about my question 1?

…………………………..

B. ALCLAD REPLY:

Hi Steve

Black gloss 305 is the only primer you need, you can spray 107 chrome over top of this. You don't need any other base primer

Rgds

Robert

…………………………

A. ME:

ALCLAD GLOSS BLACK BASE

You don't offer a gloss black paint.

1. Can ALCLAD GLOSS BLACK BASE be used to produce a very good glossy black *finish* coat?

2a. When used as in 1 above does ALCLAD Gloss Black Base itself need a primer coat under it?

2b. If so, what type of primer: Acrylic (eg. Vallejo Surface Primer); or other?

ALCLAD CHROME HIGH SHINE ALC 107

I know this needs ALCLAD Gloss Black Base under it.

3a. Does the ALCLAD Gloss Black Base itself need a primer coat under it?

3b. If so, what type of primer: Acrylic (eg. Vallejo Surface Primer); or what other?

[john i am]

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