Vallejo german grey

[Guest]

Ok how dark was german grey? I've been painting a BMW r75 with sidecar and bought a Vallejo german grey colour today to paint it with. And it came out practically black, can barely tell the difference from the tyres. I've had Tamiya german grey before and that seemed a lot lighter than this Vallejo german grey. Here's a pic...

[ATTACH]287989[/ATTACH]

. Does it look ok or is it too dark? Should Ikx it with a lighter grey or was this how dark german grey was?

[Guest]

I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago because in my mind German grey was light-ish.
When I dug up some reference photos from back when it turned out that it is really that dark!
It turns lighter with dust and dirt, but that's the real deal.

I think we're used to seeing lighter colours on scale models simply because it looks better, but that's the real colour.

I added some white to my German grey to make it more "pleasing" to the eye

[papa 695]

Looking good Jack and I agree with Jens with the colour.

[BarryW]

You need to be careful about the Vallejo names. They do not necessarily tie up with the colour you think they are and they keep changing their minds over what to name them One example, 71.110 Dark Grey is actually Extra Dark Sea Grey (appearing as such in their FAA set with 71.405 labelled as BS Dark Sea Grey) oddly when that colour was first released it was named Extra Dark Sea Grey!! There are at least two Dark Earths and even more confusing, they now label 71.003 as RLM23 Rot but until a year or so ago that one was just Red and 71.102 was labelled RLM23 Red.

It is very strange. They do label many colours on their chart with RLM, RAL, FS etc nos. If you know what the RAL number is for the German Grey you want you might find it called something else. Mind you, does their interpretation of the colour match what you think it is? That is another question as all paint companies have their own interpretation and, oddly due to fade, weathering and wartime conditions they may all be right....

[BarryW]

Jack, I just did a quick Google and the 'German Grey' that you might want is Dunkelgrau 46 which is RAL7021. With Vallejo MA that is 71.056.
I am not an armour expert but there is plenty of research available out there.

https://panzerworld.com/german-armor-camouflage

http://cdn.acrylicosvallejo.com/e33c56b715c0ac19f96a599a7fde2fb3/CC071-Rev18.pdf

[Guest]

Barry is correct that "German grey" is RAL7021, but the RAL list I painstakingly compiled during the summer has Vallejo 70.862 168 Model Color - Black Grey 862 as RAL7021. I haven't mapped the Air, a.k.a. the 71-range yet but I doubt Barry is wrong with his vast knowledge in paints so I guess they are the same, just different products. Strange that they're not using the same id numbers for different series?

The "correct" name for German grey is Schwarzgrau and that is a better description of the actual colour than the lighter grey we often expect with this colour.

Here's my incomplete chart that I made in order to better understand the various paints I needed to replace the AMMO by Mig paint that isn't working for me.
I'm going to post it online on one of my servers so everybody can use it, and also add missing paints.

[ATTACH]287997[/ATTACH]

p.s. I've only mapped Mr. Paint and AMMO where I needed them but I will complete the spreadsheet one rainy day...

[Guest]

Cheers guys. Very helpful answers indeed. I have the Vallejo black grey colour it is practically the same as Vallejo german grey. But after looking online at colour pics of the bike you are right jens, german grey was indeed very dark. I added a touch of light grey into the german grey and I am quite happy with the finish I got. And I'm sure after weathering it will look even better. Cheers again guys. You sure know your paints Barry I know where to come with any paint queries I have in the future

[Guest]

Jack - check Barrys review post on MRP (Mr. Paint) if you want an in-depth review, and a lesson, in paint!
What Barry doesn't know about paint is probably little to none

The reason why I started making my own colour conversion chart is because that all I've seen so far are focused on aircraft modelling, not AFV, and I found it near impossible to find replacements for my AMMO paints that refused to dry. The spreadsheet isn't just listing the RAL colours, I'm trying to get them all - but I only selected those ones here so you could see German grey.

I don't think it's wrong to lighten a colour because real paint will often turn lighter with time and if you're using true colours it'll only represent how it looked when new. Military vehicles aren't painted with automotive paints as far as I know, hence why they're affected by the sun and weather. That's what I believe anyway and I've painted a couple of armoured vehicles whilst in the army. Some of the blacks was no longer black, and not just from scratches.

[BarryW]

Thanks for your comments. My knowledge of armour is very limited I am afraid but I am pleased to help as much as I can.

This issue about lightening a colour is a good and valid one. Not only because of wear and fading but also because of 'scale effect'. below is a link to a post that explains this. This webiste is a very good resource worth exploring and putting in your favourites,

https://www.cybermodeler.com/color/scale_effect.shtml

[Guest]

Thanks for your comments. My knowledge of armour is very limited I am afraid but I am pleased to help as much as I can.

This issue about lightening a colour is a good and valid one. Not only because of wear and fading but also because of 'scale effect'. below is a link to a post that explains this. This webiste is a very good resource worth exploring and putting in your favourites,
https://www.cybermodeler.com/color/scale_effect.shtml

Interesting article, beware though, of using white in all colours, for instance, Olive Drab can be lightened with yellow - the theory here being to use the lighter of the constutuent colour to add to the paint (olive drab consisting of black and yellow). Also, he uses the words "colour intensity" and for our purposes, "Saturation" is a more appropriate term. If you have any sort of image editor - Paintshop Pro, Photoshop etc, you should try looking at colour photos with the saturation dialed down a few percent, it will make more sense when you try it! Edited to add: Of course, a few washes usually has a similar effect, especially with armour!