Quirks and fixes for Vallejo model air.

[Guest]

Alright folks,

I did have a search on the site for this subject, but nothing specific came up on over 10 pages of posts so i thought I would start a new thread to ask your opinions.

I use Vallejo Model Air to paint my cars. I like it because it covers well, is economical with little waste and is relatively healthy to use.

Over the past few moths of using it, I have noticed a few quirks of this brand, that is different to say Tamiya Laqcuers, so i thought i would share my observations and see if anyone else has ever suffered similar effects and knows any methods of refining the finish the paints give.

1. Model Air Paints appear to be very delicate until covered with varnish - they are very easy to scratch or mark
   
2. The primer sometimes doesn't stick to certain surfaces, despite washing and even cleaning with thinners. Would putting a key on a surface help ? Especially large surfaces.
   
3. If you need to sand back a layer of paint after filling for example - it is very difficult to get the new paint to be as smooth as the original coat.
   
4. Model air paints dry quickly, but take days to set - they are often soft until varnish is applied.
   
5. Micro sol decal softener reacts quite ferociously with model paints.
   
6. Model air gloss varnish is difficult to polish to a high shine - for instance, i cannot use wet/dry papers to achieve the same shine i would be able to get from a lacquer varnish/clear coat.
   

All feedback and personal experience, opinion and solutions would be appriciated.

with thanks y'all

Rich

[john i am]

Hi Rich I use model air paints all the time and have had none of the problems you listed above. I have even painted figures and used a hair dryer to speed up the process never had any paint come away lift or scratch. I use them straight from the bottle in my airbrush with 1or2 drops of thinner. I have also used tamiya humbrol and life colour but find these not to be so good in my opinion.But I always say its what your comfortable with what suits one person is not the best for someone else and I am 100% sure other brands are favoured by others. sorry I couldn't help you with you issues but just giving you my personal experience as you asked. I did however have issues with tamiya humbrol and life colour that's why I moved on and found something that I liked and was user friendly to me so I'm sticking with the model air paints and I hope someone can answer your questions soon good luck John

[yak face]

Hi rich , Ive only just started using these paints , in fact my MiG 15 uti has just had its first coat. Although its only the first go with them , heres what ive gathered so far. I thought i'd experiment first before committing to the model , so took a spare test piece and primed it as normal with Halfords grey aerosol primer. I then sprayed it with Model Air Aluminium unthinned at about 35 psi using my cheapo chinese A/B (0.3mm needle) . It gave a lovely finish ,which I then left to dry , as you say they take a long time to fully dry , it was about 2 days before it didnt feel slightly soft. I then experimented with the durability of it by firmly sticking tamiya tape on to the surface and briskly peeling it off to see if it came off or marked. The results of this were surprisingly good , no marks or lifting!! I also overcoated a small section with Klear to see if the reflectivity altered , it did but only very slightly and hardly noticeable. So in summary so far I'm mightily impressed and hopefully have found my own personal solution to the ever thorny problem of natural metal finishes (ive tried Alclad and couldnt get on with it , also Tamiya ,Humbrol and various aerosols!) Hopefully this wont turn out to be a fluke , as ive got loads of aircraft in the stash that require a NMF but ive been too scared to do them in case i mess the finish up! Thats my experiences , as for yours - maybe try a different primer , it sounds like the problems youre having with scratching easily and the primer not sticking to the model are related and could just be the model air primer not being very durable. Try a test with the Halfords primer , i use this all the time (grey or white) and find it excellent , always adhering well to the plastic surface even if quite shiny and providing a good surface for the paint to stick to. I cant comment on the model air gloss as I wont be using that , I use Windsor and Newton Galeria acrylic varnishes (matt and gloss) and have found these to be a great final coat although i havent used them over model air yet so cant vouch for their compatibility ,but watch this space -the mig has got to have its varnish coat yet! hope this helps in some way ,cheers tony

[monica]

I will be keeping an eye on this one as ,as I mite pickup a few hints and hits and always interested to learn more, about AB,

as I had been use lifecolor and humbral mostly with a brush, but found on bigger scale that i needed to more on from a brush for lager surfaces,

and have even started to wash down the kits before undercoating which i never did,

since i have been using Vallejo, with the smoothness of the paint i find it hard to use the others and you can feel the grit in the pant on the brush,

and also alot less is use and seams to cover better,

and as what alot of you guys hear have said there is no real big problem with using the varnish, maybe just to be on the safe side, drop in 2 or 3 drops

of thinners to be sure and do 2 or 3 thinner coats that one think one, and clean up is a must after use,

[BarryW]

I use Model Air almost exclusively but you do need to treat it properly - here are some rules that I have learned:

1/ Thin only with the Vallejo thinner to preserve the adhesion qualities of the paint. Always apply in light coats. Model Air can be sprayed without thinnng with a 0.4 needle but I would add a little thinner for needle sizes below 0.35.

2/ Allow the paint to 'cure' properly. After 24 hours it is usually hard enough to mask over it but it has not fully hardened for 48 hours. When it is fully cured I have found it to be as robust and tough as any paint I have used. I always leave at least 24 hours between coats.

3/ With primer, brilliant stuff, lay down a thin mist coat first before gradually building it up in thin coats. It really dries tight and hard but, like the other paint it does need to be left at least 24 hour to cure. When it is cured it can sand easily and will feather as well. It 'feathers' best after about 48 hours. If you try sanding before it has cured properly then it will peel.

4/ The Vallejo Gloss varnish is not so good, Humbrol Clear sprays better straight from the bottle. The Vallejo matt varnish though is excellent and should be thinned a little and is best with a .4 needle. Smaller needles, thin it more.

5/ It is difficult to spray though a .2 or smaller needle. 0.2 does work but only use this size if you are very experienced, 0.015 is hopeless with Vallejo.

6/ I always clean my models before painting by wiping them over with ipa and I believe this helps get rid of grease and provides a better surface to spray. be careful of greasy finger marks after or while wiping down. Even clean fingers can leave a residue on the plastic. Use disposable gloves if you have a problem.

I suggest not bothering with Vallejo metallics, Model Colour are awful, Model Air are better but nowhere near as good as the Gunze buffable metallics. I am about to try the Humbrol buffable metallics as well incidentally....

[BarryW]

Hi rich , Ive only just started using these paints , in fact my MiG 15 uti has just had its first coat. Although its only the first go with them , heres what ive gathered so far. I thought i'd experiment first before committing to the model , so took a spare test piece and primed it as normal with Halfords grey aerosol primer. I then sprayed it with Model Air Aluminium unthinned at about 35 psi using my cheapo chinese A/B (0.3mm needle) . It gave a lovely finish ,which I then left to dry , as you say they take a long time to fully dry , it was about 2 days before it didnt feel slightly soft. I then experimented with the durability of it by firmly sticking tamiya tape on to the surface and briskly peeling it off to see if it came off or marked. The results of this were surprisingly good , no marks or lifting!! I also overcoated a small section with Klear to see if the reflectivity altered , it did but only very slightly and hardly noticeable. So in summary so far I'm mightily impressed and hopefully have found my own personal solution to the ever thorny problem of natural metal finishes (ive tried Alclad and couldnt get on with it , also Tamiya ,Humbrol and various aerosols!) Hopefully this wont turn out to be a fluke , as ive got loads of aircraft in the stash that require a NMF but ive been too scared to do them in case i mess the finish up! Thats my experiences , as for yours - maybe try a different primer , it sounds like the problems youre having with scratching easily and the primer not sticking to the model are related and could just be the model air primer not being very durable. Try a test with the Halfords primer , i use this all the time (grey or white) and find it excellent , always adhering well to the plastic surface even if quite shiny and providing a good surface for the paint to stick to. I cant comment on the model air gloss as I wont be using that , I use Windsor and Newton Galeria acrylic varnishes (matt and gloss) and have found these to be a great final coat although i havent used them over model air yet so cant vouch for their compatibility ,but watch this space -the mig has got to have its varnish coat yet! hope this helps in some way ,cheers tony

Natural metal finishes are problematical. I am glad you have a solution that works for you but as I said above I prefer the Gunze buffables even though even after buffing them they do not take to masking. You have to adapt your modelling methods to accomodate them but the reward is an oustanding metallic surface when buffed.

[yak face]

Ive also tried the Vallejo 'liquid silver' Barry , which gives an outstanding finish but is very vulnerable to handling , masking ,top coats etc , but it can be useful for applications where its the last thing to go on and wont be touched again! ie. for small areas that you want in a different shade such as access panels etc. cheers tony

[colin m]

Ive also tried the Vallejo 'liquid silver' Barry , which gives an outstanding finish but is very vulnerable to handling , masking ,top coats etc , but it can be useful for applications where its the last thing to go on and wont be touched again! ie. for small areas that you want in a different shade such as access panels etc. cheers tony

I use Vallejo as well and when buying to replace my normally used stock I'll often have a look around to see what else is available. I'm often surprised to see what colour / metallic is available. I recently bought some 'oily steel' and it is just that - great stuff. Liquid silver sounds nice, I'll put that on the list for next time.

Colin M...

[Guest]

Rich my experience seems totally different.

For primer I have found that the best way is to wet and dry the plastic with 1500 wet and dry. This is essential to get a grip. I have found if you do not then the primer and following coats will not be robust as the primer is not secure.

After 24 hours of applying the primer ( as Barry has stated mist coat then full coat) I can lightly wet and dry to get rid o any dust bits etc. I have also found that it is possible with care to use following coats to fill in any mini craters left after removal of the dust bits.

For small bits and pieces to get a grip for the primer I do this. Introduced by another member of the forum but not now participating. I christened it GritColin. Put bird grit into a container chuck in the pieces (carefully) and shake. This provides a great matt finish for the primer to adhere to. Seems bazaar but it works.

The above has not failed me. Not to follow it has. After 24 hours I have not found any problems in handling. But any wet and dry work sanding is best with 1500 grade with an already used piece plus lots of water.

After 24 hours I can apply masking tape to the top coat which releases without problems.

Found that Vallejo will not cure as quickly in higher temperatures and wonder if that may be a factor.

Laurie

[Guest]

Alright folks,

Thanks for the feedback - all good - John - no need to apologies, like you say, i asked for the feedback

there are lots of good ideas here. Perhaps it's my technique when using the paints, which is why i get issues. For instance, I'm not that patient when it comes to letting coats dry - and smoothing coats if they are still soft, isn't going to be that easy to maintain a smooth finish, especially around the curves of a car.

I did a bit of spraying tonight - applied some primer to a few parts and will give you some reports on how they turn out.

I did notice a part I sprayed about two days ago was a different texture to the touch - and using some 1200 grit papaer, i have very lightly sanded down the dust specs ready for a second coat ( just like Laurie mentions.

I might try some Tamiya clear over the top of this model too. Does anyone have experience of tamiya clear over Vallejo model air ?

Thanking you kindly.

Rich