Vallejo Surface Primer

[Guest]

I used Vallejo primer on my current build, a Mk VIIC/41 U-boat.

I thinned it, washed model, left that to air dry for a few days and then sprayed the primer on.

Left it for 2 days to cure, primer came straight off when sanding and even when in contact with my cutting mat.

Stripped and primed it again...left it to cure for a week, that seemed to do the job for the large area of the hulls. However, at the moment I am dealing with the smaller parts now, and some of the primer is peeling off and its been on there 4-5 weeks.

I did not use IPA.

[Guest]

However, at the moment I am dealing with the smaller parts now, and some of the primer is peeling off and its been on there 4-5 weeks.

Just finished all these pieces Andrew which were initially each coated with Vallejo Primer. A great majority are small pieces and/ or with small detail attached.

[ATTACH]99405.IPB[/ATTACH]


Small pieces are extremely difficult to prepare as being mostly impossible to sand. If they are not prepared they will be shiny providing the worst surface for acrylic primer to adhere to. No amount of curing will solve that.

I use this.

[ATTACH]99406.IPB[/ATTACH]


It is bird grit. Bizarre it may seem but it works. Learnt from Colin previous member of SMF. Place your bits of plastic in the container of bird grit. Obviously put on the top and gently for a minute or two jog the container back and forward turning upside down continually as the plastic comes to the top of the grit. Even very small pieces will not be harmed but they will be sufficiently scuffed to form a good surface for the acrylic primer to adhere to.

Wash with water and a small amount of washing up liquid and thoroughly rinses as they will be covered with bird grit dust. After priming try to leave 48 hours to cure. Used this time and again. The only problem I have had is in forgetting to birdgrit a piece and i have had problems.

All the pieces above were airbrushed with Vallejo Primer. I would not use hand brushing as then the paint film will be too thick both obliterating detail and very difficult to cure.

Laurie

[Guest]

Ok...so it just gives the smaller parts a bit of texture for the paint to grab onto. Excellent info Laurie

[BarryW]

That is a good trick from Laurie and presumably it also 'scores away' any grease too.

Andrew - I can only assume there must have been release agent or finger grease on the parts for that to happen. I have used Vallejo on 25 builds so far, mostly 1/32 scale, with few problems and on the rare occasions when I have had them it was my own fault for not cleaning the parts enough or being impatient.

Patrick - I have heard of others using that kind of primer as well as you and commenting favourably on it. I have not tried it myself, but I have tried rattle cans and, overall, I am not happy with the controlability of the cans much prefering to airbrush. Hence Vallejo.

[Guest]

This is a decent video Ray, I don't use Vallejo myself, but these chaps make it seem easy !http://www.scalewarmachines.com/?q=allcontent/vallejo-surface-primers

Great site Patrick thanks for the info on it. Good info on a lot of products and techniques. Had a look at the video which I thought was very well pro. presented with good info.

Just disagree with cure time. Not to be confused with a piece being dry to handle and to be able to apply further coats as opposed to being cured sufficiently to wet and dry wet.

Perhaps a .3 needle is pushing your luck. Hand dryer dries the surfacer but does not enhance curing one little bit and I am suspicious that this may undo the bond plastic to paint.

Also recommend the DVD called AFV acrylic techniques by Mig Jimenz . The first section in which he demonstrates primers although not the preparation of the plastic surface. He shows how to apply the primer. He also demonstrates how to use the different colour primers and mixing of the colours to pre-shade with the primer itself.

Laurie

[Guest]

Patrick - I have heard of others using that kind of primer as well as you and commenting favourably on it. I have not tried it myself, but I have tried rattle cans and, overall, I am not happy with the controlability of the cans much prefering to airbrush. Hence Vallejo.

Like you Barry, I prefer using the airbrush, but with this stuff control doesn't seem to matter. On a 1/72 Spitfire I went way over the top & sprayed far too much. 2 hours later:

[ATTACH]99425.IPB[/ATTACH]


It shrunk down to a fine smooth covering! And no cleaning of the AB!

[Guest]

That is a good trick from Laurie and presumably it also 'scores away' any grease too.Andrew - I can only assume there must have been release agent or finger grease on the parts for that to happen. I have used Vallejo on 25 builds so far, mostly 1/32 scale, with few problems and on the rare occasions when I have had them it was my own fault for not cleaning the parts enough or being impatient.

Patrick - I have heard of others using that kind of primer as well as you and commenting favourably on it. I have not tried it myself, but I have tried rattle cans and, overall, I am not happy with the controlability of the cans much prefering to airbrush. Hence Vallejo.

There may have been grease still on the parts, but I had washed them in warm slightly soapy water, left all parts to air dry for 2 days and they were then primed. The small parts/sprues were left to cure for a good 4-5 weeks while I was dealing with the 2 hull halves etc. Maybe I thinned it a bit too much but it was a nice milky consistency.

Will give it another go on my next build

[Guest]

As for the video Laurie, I'd agree with your curing time, although I don't know when the video was made or the age ofthe primer / paints tthey're using.

From what I've seen & read, the durability of Vallejo has gone down in recent times - especially as that was previously one of its biggest selling points. Maybe Mig took the original formula when he left?

[Guest]

As for the video Laurie, I'd agree with your curing time, although I don't know when the video was made or the age ofthe primer / paints tthey're using.From what I've seen & read, the durability of Vallejo has gone down in recent times - especially as that was previously one of its biggest selling points. Maybe Mig took the original formula when he left?

Having used Vallejo Patrick, for I suppose for near on 6 years, I have not noticed any change except for the better that the more I use it the more I learn about how far you can go without abusing it. The thinners now used are superior to those which I started with as are the new varnishes.One thing you cannot do is to ensure preparation work is thorough as if it is not then which ever paint you use is not going to be used to its advantage.

Think like all products you have to respect the limits that it sets are worked within. Had a delve with Lifcolor and that has different, subtle, differences. As Mig points out he can do anything with acrylics that can be done with enamel. But as he also points out the techniques to do that are different with advantages and disadvantages in both directions.

Laurie

[BarryW]

There may have been grease still on the parts, but I had washed them in warm slightly soapy water, left all parts to air dry for 2 days and they were then primed. The small parts/sprues were left to cure for a good 4-5 weeks while I was dealing with the 2 hull halves etc. Maybe I thinned it a bit too much but it was a nice milky consistency.Will give it another go on my next build

What did you thin with?

Thinning with anything other than the right thinner reduces its durability.

Also it does not need thinning to spray through an airbrush. Excessive thinning even with the right stuff could have an adverse effect.

When applying it is best to do that very light mist coat first and make sure it is built up in thin coats.

[Guest]

What did you thin with?Thinning with anything other than the right thinner reduces its durability.

Also it does not need thinning to spray through an airbrush. Excessive thinning even with the right stuff could have an adverse effect.

When applying it is best to do that very light mist coat first and make sure it is built up in thin coats.

I used Universal brand thinners.

I'd say a ratio of 20/80.

[Guest]

I used Universal brand thinners.

Andrew if it is the Universal Brand I looked at on Ebay it is a solvent based thinners.

Vallejo is water based. If all this is so that is your problem. As it is still uncured IPA will probably strip it off so that you can make a fresh start.

Although Vallejo is water based and you can use water I would only use Vallejo Thinners. Their thinners has the same base ingredients as the paint. Thinning the paint with the Vallejo thinners will retain the paints integrate. With water thinning you will lose that integrate. Flattening out of the paint, adhesion to the plastic and lubrication through the airbrush will all be degraded.

Laurie

[Guest]

Many many thanks Laurie

[BarryW]

Laurie is spot on that might be the explanation Andrew.

Try spraying unthinned and laying it down in very thin layers drying down each layer with air each time before the next one then leave it to cure.

[Guest]

Like you Barry, I prefer using the airbrush, but with this stuff control doesn't seem to matter. On a 1/72 Spitfire I went way over the top & sprayed far too much. 2 hours later:[ATTACH]101034[/ATTACH]

It shrunk down to a fine smooth covering! And no cleaning of the AB!

That's interesting. Not using the airbrush where appropriate saves a lot of time. Will try that