Which primer, if any ?

[Guest]

I'm just getting back into modelling after a gap of nearly sixty years (!) and am wondering about primers.

Gee Graham just picked up on this. Welcome with a bit of luck you will be older than I am and take away the stigma from me of being (I think) the eldest participating member here.


I hardly like to ask your age as I may well be so disappointed ( not really just good fun).


Laurie

[Guest]

Hi Graham
I am new back into modelling after over 20 years, I didn't exactly do it to a high level then as I was young and had little guidance/help.


If your new to this forum and you find yourself a little lost with changes that may have happened in the last 60 years, you'll get all the help you need here the guys are great, so welcome.


I agree with Laurie here, it's not that the paint won't adhere straight to the model without primer because it probably will, it's more the fact that it just won't be as hardy. When I painted my first plane by the end of the finishing I.e decals and added details I noticed some of the paint had worn, I expect it would have been a lot worse if I hadn't of primed it.


I don't get a lot of time to build so picking it up and putting it down between painting and varnishing over a couple of weeks will damage paint, I suppose it depends how much time you have to build. I'm just starting out but I do have a little understanding of paint processes, also if you put say for example a light blue direct on a dark green styrene model it will undoubtedly dry with a different hue to going direct onto a white styrene model unless of course you lay it on thick then running the risk of loosing detail, so why not try a light primer first I will always probably stick to light grey.


I also mainly use Vallejo primer and model air colours in a similar way to Laurie they are fantastic. I use daler Rowney acrylic flow enhancer and that works a treat, I have just purchased some Vallejo thinners for acrylic but am yet to try.


Kind regards


Phil

Hi Phil,


Many thanks for your considered views on the subject of priming, which I'm coming to realise represents that extra mile that one needs to go in order to achieve the best possible paint finish. As they say in DIY, it's all in the preparation and I now believe priming in model building is well advised.


Thank you, Phil, for getting in touch and for your sound advice, which will stand me in good stead for the future, I'm sure.


Kind regards,


Graham.

[PhilJ]

Gee Graham just picked up on this. Welcome with a bit of luck you will be older than I am and take away the stigma from me of being (I think) the eldest participating member here.
I hardly like to ask your age as I may well be so disappointed ( not really just good fun).


Laurie

Wether you like it or not I don't think your gonna shake off that stigma Laurie


Your right Graham, that is something I'm always saying in life and not just for DIY, " it's all about the prep"

[Guest]

Wether you like it or not I don't think your gonna shake off that stigma Laurie

To "quote" Winston S Churchill : “Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.”


Laurie

[Guest]

Forgotten another prime reason for priming.


Acrylics tend, except for black and those near on the spectrum, to be slightly translucent especially when you approach the opposite end of the spectrum white yellows etc.


Also airbrushing work is gives a paint covering which is quite thin. This is used by some as a technique to pre-shade.


During preparation of the model for painting there is inevitably some filling work (especially on a Revell Longbow Apache) and also trimming of plastic.


Covering this with neat top coat does not in most cases stop the whitish filling grinning through the paintwork.


Priming will, being virtually opaque, cover the filler and also where trimming has occurred.


Laurie

[Guest]

........

2. For re-chroming the odd piece in Alclad II, I assume a good primer would be their Alclad II Grey Primer and Filler. Would this perhaps also be a good primer to work with acrylic top coats?

I'd much appreciate your thoughts on this.


Regards,


Graham.

I investigated Alclad II chrome ("Shiny chrome" I think it is called) and asked them whether a primer was needed for that. The answer was "No. Just use the recommended Alclad black base."

[Guest]

Hi everyone,
I'm just getting back into modelling after a gap of nearly sixty years (!) and am wondering about primers.


I've just ordered my first Iwata Eclipse HP-CS airbrush and the Iwata Power Jet PRO compressor and can't wait to try them out and practice, practice, practice.


My questions are twofold, as follows:-

1. For top coats in acrylic paint, that is, initially Humbrol for my first project but then thereafter Tamiya, what primer would you recommend, please? And

2. For re-chroming the odd piece in Alclad II, I assume a good primer would be their Alclad II Grey Primer and Filler. Would this perhaps also be a good primer to work with acrylic top coats?

I'd much appreciate your thoughts on this.


Regards,


Graham.

Alclad chrome needs alclad gloss black base. The better and smoother the basr/primer finish the shinier the finish. You use very little chrome over the black this the primer/base needs to be well done for a top finish. Something I have just learned with a practise model and other guides.


You should prime for the best finish in minimal coats, some paints are not as opaque and some require a specific colour underneath to advice the exact colour match without using a gazillion coats.


Systems such as alclad require specific primers for specific paints and effects in their range and they have guides on line

[Guest]

I investigated Alclad II chrome ("Shiny chrome" I think it is called) and asked them whether a primer was needed for that. The answer was "No. Just use the recommended Alclad black base."

Hello Steve,


Ah, that's very useful info; many thanks !


Sometimes, the chrome parts of a kit can be poorly made and in my view it seems senseless to "spoil the ship for a halfpenny-worth of tar". A quick wet-and-dry paper sanding and re-chroming might make all the difference. I had read that Alclad II Chrome is just the job for this and I'm delighted to know now that their Black Base is all that's required for an undercoat -- makes the job even simpler!


Very many thanks, Steve, for picking up on the final remaining unanswered part of my question...


There's so much to learn...


Regards,


Graham.

[Guest]

Alclad chrome needs alclad gloss black base. The better and smoother the basr/primer finish the shinier the finish. You use very little chrome over the black this the primer/base needs to be well done for a top finish. Something I have just learned with a practise model and other guides.
You should prime for the best finish in minimal coats, some paints are not as opaque and some require a specific colour underneath to advice the exact colour match without using a gazillion coats.


Systems such as alclad require specific primers for specific paints and effects in their range and they have guides on line

Hi Dougie,


Very useful to have your feedback, Dougie; many thanks.


Although you don't exactly say so, it sounds like you are pleased with the results of your use of Alclad II Chrome on your practice model.


Good to have your pointers there on its use -- it's always a tremendous help benefiting from someone's hands-on experience.


Regards,


Graham.

[stona]

Alclad only needs the gloss black primer under the highly polished finishes. I haven't looked recently, but they did make this clear on their web site. I us a normal grey primer under most typical natural metal finishes, in my case usually versions of aluminium.


Rather than buying several slightly different shades of a relatively pricey product you can tint Alclad with a drop or two of gloss black (or white) to give some variation, as in the panels on the bottom of this Ta 152. You can then spend the money saved on a nice bottle of wine, or whatever takes your fancy


[ATTACH]113445.IPB[/ATTACH]



There did used to be problems with Alclad's own gloss black primer but I understand that these are now resolved. I used good old Humbrol gloss black on my model above but there are caveats. The primer, whichever you use, must be completely dry and cured before applying the Alclad. I left mine about a week. Alclad is lacquer based and the solvent is quite 'hot'. It will react with some primers to create a nasty looking crazing or orange peel effect. For the same reason you must mist the Alclad on in light coats. If you actually wet the primer with too much Alclad you will be in trouble. To this I can testify from first hand experience


Natural metal finishes are not difficult in my opinion. There are several options out there nowadays and they all seem to give results we would have died for twenty years ago! The trick, just like painting your living room, is to get the preparation right. Natural metal finishes do tend to show up even the slightest flaw in the plastic or your techniques.


Cheers


Steve

[Guest]

Hi Dougie,
Very useful to have your feedback, Dougie; many thanks.


Although you don't exactly say so, it sounds like you are pleased with the results of your use of Alclad II Chrome on your practice model.


Good to have your pointers there on its use -- it's always a tremendous help benefiting from someone's hands-on experience.


Regards,


Graham.

Even with my poor gloss finish on the discs it came up quite good. I did one with too much chrome to see where the effect stopped and became flat. It happens quickly. I didn't use scrap as I won't lose sleep on a disc on a practise car at the moment haha

[Guest]

Alclad only needs the gloss black primer under the highly polished finishes. I haven't looked recently, but they did make this clear on their web site. I us a normal grey primer under most typical natural metal finishes, in my case usually versions of aluminium.
Rather than buying several slightly different shades of a relatively pricey product you can tint Alclad with a drop or two of gloss black (or white) to give some variation, as in the panels on the bottom of this Ta 152. You can then spend the money saved on a nice bottle of wine, or whatever takes your fancy


[ATTACH]124497[/ATTACH]


There did used to be problems with Alclad's own gloss black primer but I understand that these are now resolved. I used good old Humbrol gloss black on my model above but there are caveats. The primer, whichever you use, must be completely dry and cured before applying the Alclad. I left mine about a week. Alclad is lacquer based and the solvent is quite 'hot'. It will react with some primers to create a nasty looking crazing or orange peel effect. For the same reason you must mist the Alclad on in light coats. If you actually wet the primer with too much Alclad you will be in trouble. To this I can testify from first hand experience


Natural metal finishes are not difficult in my opinion. There are several options out there nowadays and they all seem to give results we would have died for twenty years ago! The trick, just like painting your living room, is to get the preparation right. Natural metal finishes do tend to show up even the slightest flaw in the plastic or your techniques.


Cheers


Steve

Hi Steve,


LOVE the subtle look of that paneling! Makes it look so REAL, which of course is the intention...


For me, this is a very informative once again in terms of what can be achieved. Many thanks...


Regards,


Graham.

[Guest]

Alclad only needs the gloss black primer under the highly polished finishes. I haven't looked recently, but they did make this clear on their web site. I us a normal grey primer under most typical natural metal finishes, in my case usually versions of aluminium.
Rather than buying several slightly different shades of a relatively pricey product you can tint Alclad with a drop or two of gloss black (or white) to give some variation, as in the panels on the bottom of this Ta 152. You can then spend the money saved on a nice bottle of wine, or whatever takes your fancy


..........


There did used to be problems with Alclad's own gloss black primer but I understand that these are now resolved. I used good old Humbrol gloss black on my model above but there are caveats. The primer, whichever you use, must be completely dry and cured before applying the Alclad. I left mine about a week. Alclad is lacquer based and the solvent is quite 'hot'. It will react with some primers to create a nasty looking crazing or orange peel effect. For the same reason you must mist the Alclad on in light coats. If you actually wet the primer with too much Alclad you will be in trouble. To this I can testify from first hand experience


Natural metal finishes are not difficult in my opinion. There are several options out there nowadays and they all seem to give results we would have died for twenty years ago! The trick, just like painting your living room, is to get the preparation right. Natural metal finishes do tend to show up even the slightest flaw in the plastic or your techniques.


Cheers


Steve

The underlined part of your post (press "Click to expand"). You might remember my posts several (possibly many) months ago about my persistent blocking of my H & D airbrush using Vallejo acrylic paint, after many previous successful airbrushings for the previous year or more. One poster gave me a clue: I had been using Tamiya synthetic Lacquer a lot. It uses cellulose thinners as the solvent and cleaner. The poster mentioned that such a lacquer can cause blocking. I had cleaned the nozzle very thoroughly every time, including soaking and using a reamer. I had to buy a new nozzle and aircap. Before using the Lacquer I had also used Alclad II (shiny?) Chrome. I am very hesitant to use either of those again.


What is you experience please of using Alclad II concerning airbrush blocking?

[Guest]

The underlined part of your post (press "Click to expand"). You might remember my posts several (possibly many) months ago about my persistent blocking of my H & D airbrush using Vallejo acrylic paint, after many previous successful airbrushings for the previous year or more. One poster gave me a clue: I had been using Tamiya synthetic Lacquer a lot. It uses cellulose thinners as the solvent and cleaner. The poster mentioned that such a lacquer can cause blocking. I had cleaned the nozzle very thoroughly every time, including soaking and using a reamer. I had to buy a new nozzle and aircap. Before using the Lacquer I had also used Alclad II (shiny?) Chrome. I am very hesitant to use either of those again.
What is you experience please of using Alclad II concerning airbrush blocking?

Dear Steve,


Interesting question, which I think you meant to direct at "Stona" Steve, as my experience of airbrushing to date is NIL!


But I kinda get your query -- was it perhaps a combination of having previously used Alclad II and then the Tamiya product with suspect cellulose thinners that, despite a thoroughly spotless cleaning effort, there could possibly have been enough residue of both products to cause some sort of exaggerated reaction inside the nozzle of your airbrush...


I'm sure this is something that Steve will have a view on...


Regards,


Graham.

[stona]

I've never had any trouble at all spraying Alclads. The product itself sprays like water. It does dry quite quickly and the only thing I use to clean the airbrush is cellulose thinners (lacquer thinners for those across the pond). This is also a 'hot' solvent (actually a mixture of solvents) and can cause problems in some cheaper airbrushes as it will attack their O-rings and seals. I usually use an Iwata airbrush for Alclad, but any other reputable brand will be fine.


lacquer/cellulose thinners certainly will react with certain acrylic paints. I think it was how I managed to turn Xtracrylix into custard on one occasion!


Cheers


Steve