Am I the only one that thinks enamels have had their day?

[Guest]

Tinlets make a mess?! Ha-ha are you kids?
Use a pair of tweezers to remove the lid & decant the paint with straws ...easy!!

Yes, yea i am. I am a self proclaimed messy ass! :P

[Guest]

Tinlets make a mess?! Ha-ha are you kids?
Use a pair of tweezers to remove the lid & decant the paint with straws ...easy!!

Yep I am just a big kid which is why I like making models. Tamiya jars are the way to go or Vallejo bottles. Life color I think do nice jars.

[Guest]

Just my own personal preference, but I prefer to spray acrylics, and brush-paint with enamels.


For some reason I just can't get on with acrylics on a hairy stick, but I do prefer the way they spray (and of course, less noxious fumes than sprayed enamels)


So I tend to brush paint interiors, and small details, with enamels - and spray acrylics for coverage, and smoother finish, on exteriors.

[spanner570]

I'll rub along with any kind of paint - even cheap children's acrylics...as long as I get the results I want from my brushes, I don't care what kind of paint I stick them in.


But then I don't spray paint, so it makes life so much easier....


INCOMING!

[Guest]

Tamiya jars are the way to go or Vallejo bottles. Life color I think do nice jars.

From the practical point of view David I like the droplet bottles. The paint cannot dry out so easily as there


is less than a 2mm hole while a wide top bottle can. The droplet bottle is also long and there is a very


small surface exposed compared to the Lifecolor bottle.


So much easier to count drops into an airbrush with a dropper bottle. If I am using a lot of a particular lifecolor I decant


into a dropper bottle..


Laurie

[Guest]

Hi I use mainly acrylic paint, Tamiya ,revell aqua, and have just recently found model air from Vallejo. I love this stuff no mess nice clean tidy bottles and a good colour range, in fact I like them so much my good lady wife has bought me the entire range for Christmas. Oh I meant to add I also use Citadel water based paints from games workshop too and these are excellent for brush painting or spraying.


scott

[stona]

I'm not sure that the measuring paint argument is valid Laurie. I use 3ml transfer pipettes which are disposable and from which you can easily count the drops (they are graduated for the more anal mixers). I bought a box of 500 for not very much (certainly less than 20 quid) years ago and I've barely scratched the surface of my supply. Straws will do the same job for free!


As for fumes, just because you can't smell something doesn't mean it isn't there. As a rule the solvents used in enamel paints smell more strongly than others, but there are still solvents in other types of paints and your airbrush is still creating an aerosol which you don't want to inhale. A good mask should be used for both and this will negate the potential harmful effects of BOTH types of paint.


I've been spraying paints for well over twenty five years and consider myself an experienced airbrush user. I switched to acrylic paints for a two year period. In my experience enamel paints are FAR more tolerant of approximate thinning and FAR less likely to ever cause blockages and stoppages in the brush. With enamels I have NEVER had to add anything to the paint but the thinning agent, invariably cheapo white spirits. With acrylics I was arseing about with retarders, flow enhancers and different thinners and still had regular, if not frequent, stoppages. I've NEVER found an acrylic paint which has the toughness and durability of a properly sprayed enamel onto a properly prepared surface, though I'm told acrylics are getting better in this regard. I don't remember EVER lifting an enamel paint with masking material.


Airbrush cleaning is MUCH easier with enamels. Unless you take hours to spray a job they won't dry in the airbrush cup. I only ever flush my brush through with more white spirits, give it a back flush and a wipe and the jobs done. I only disassemble my airbrushes when something goes wrong, not every time I use one, not even on every model.


The only arguable disadvantage of enamels is the smell which just let's you know that there's 'stuff' in the air. A lack of smell can lead some acrylic users into a dangerous complacency about the spraying process. I repeat that you should use a mask (de rigeur) and if you can, an extractor, whatever you are spraying.


Drying time is not an issue. If you are desperate for your paint to dry, then you are rushing which I would suggest is just about the worst thing you can do while building a model .


I'd be interested to see someone lay out the advantages that they feel acrylics have over enamels!


Cheers


Steve

[Guest]

Exactly my point on the other thread about health & safety! You put the arguments much more clearly & concisely than I did though Steve!

[Guest]

I'm not sure that the measuring paint argument is valid Laurie. I use 3ml transfer pipettes which are disposable and from which you can easily count the drops (they are graduated for the more anal mixers). I bought a box of 500 for not very much (certainly less than 20 quid) years ago and I've barely scratched the surface of my supply. Straws will do the same job for free!
As for fumes, just because you can't smell something doesn't mean it isn't there. As a rule the solvents used in enamel paints smell more strongly than others, but there are still solvents in other types of paints and your airbrush is still creating an aerosol which you don't want to inhale. A good mask should be used for both and this will negate the potential harmful effects of BOTH types of paint.


I've been spraying paints for well over twenty five years and consider myself an experienced airbrush user. I switched to acrylic paints for a two year period. In my experience enamel paints are FAR more tolerant of approximate thinning and FAR less likely to ever cause blockages and stoppages in the brush. With enamels I have NEVER had to add anything to the paint but the thinning agent, invariably cheapo white spirits. With acrylics I was arseing about with retarders, flow enhancers and different thinners and still had regular, if not frequent, stoppages. I've NEVER found an acrylic paint which has the toughness and durability of a properly sprayed enamel onto a properly prepared surface, though I'm told acrylics are getting better in this regard. I don't remember EVER lifting an enamel paint with masking material.


Airbrush cleaning is MUCH easier with enamels. Unless you take hours to spray a job they won't dry in the airbrush cup. I only ever flush my brush through with more white spirits, give it a back flush and a wipe and the jobs done. I only disassemble my airbrushes when something goes wrong, not every time I use one, not even on every model.


The only arguable disadvantage of enamels is the smell which just let's you know that there's 'stuff' in the air. A lack of smell can lead some acrylic users into a dangerous complacency about the spraying process. I repeat that you should use a mask (de rigeur) and if you can, an extractor, whatever you are spraying.


Drying time is not an issue. If you are desperate for your paint to dry, then you are rushing which I would suggest is just about the worst thing you can do while building a model .


I'd be interested to see someone lay out the advantages that they feel acrylics have over enamels!


Cheers


Steve

Well thought out and presented argument Steve. Plus of course the standard of your models attest to your credibility to have such opinions.


Beautifully put argument demonstrating very clearly why enamels will always be with us for a long time to come in conjunction with whatever other paint system you may wish to use at the same time. One thing I note with great interest is the fact that acrylics do generate as much in the way of harmful solvents as enamels yet oil based paints seem to be continually on the recieving end of the environmentalists. Yet again demonstrating another example of a knee jerk environmental drive that is ill concieved and, yet again, probably has a greater aggregate negative impact on the environment than if nothing was done!

[zuludog]

I do exclusively brush painting


I've tried acrylics and didn't think much of them, though admittedly the only ones I've tried have been the Humbrol pots


I have a collection of enamels, mostly Humbrol. I know them and they do the job, so I don't see any need to change.

[Guest]

Good point Laurie. I agree that Vallejo are best for A/B but the Tamiya bottles are good for brush work. Basically I just don't like the tins.

[PaulTRose]

i work almost exclusivly with acrylics........vallejo for airbrush.....vallejo and revell aqua for hairy brushing


being asthmatic i dont like the smell of enamels


i cant get on with tamiya at all.....only ones i use is transparent red and orange for indicator/tail lights on cars and bikes


not often i use enamels even though i have about 30 tins......they are either metallics or black/colours for making washes, funny enough only today i bought my first tin of enamel paint for about 4 years, some brown to make a wash for the jackal and wmik

[PaulTRose]

Drying time is not an issue. If you are desperate for your paint to dry, then you are rushing which I would suggest is just about the worst thing you can do while building a model .

unless you are trying to do the modulation trick


with acrylics you can give a coat, then use the AB to blow air to dry it, add a few drops of lightning colour to the pot and carry on spraying, job done in a couple of minutes


for me thats a big advantage using acrylics

[stona]

unless you are trying to do the modulation trick
with acrylics you can give a coat, then use the AB to blow air to dry it, add a few drops of lightning colour to the pot and carry on spraying, job done in a couple of minutes


for me thats a big advantage using acrylics

Well yes, you can undoubtedly paint more quickly with quicker drying paints. However I'm a dyed in the wool post-shader (pre-shading rarely gives me what I'm looking for with a few exceptions) but you can shade over enamel paint long before it has dried. You do have to allow it to become tacky so the process does involve a second session with the airbrush, which, as you say, you can avoid with a faster drying paint. You can certainly save yourself one airbrush flush and a few hours! If I'm on a roll I can post shade within an hour or so of the initial application. Normally I'd leave it longer and get on with something else. What's the rush?


There is no question that enamel paints have a longer drying time. Whether that is a disadvantage or not is really just a matter of opinion. It doesn't bother me, it gives me time to really look at what I've done, have a good think about it, and then make any changes or adjustments. The longer drying may even have some not so obvious advantages. Maybe one of the reasons that I have never had issues with masking materials lifting paint is because by the time you've waited for an enamel to dry it is also largely cured whereas acrylic types dry quickly but are nowhere near being cured, that is the chemical processes involved in the drying have not completed. There maybe a tendency to mask too soon with inevitable results? I don't know, I used to leave acrylics (mainly Vallejo and Xtracrylix) at least twelve hours before masking and still had paint being lifted by the most gentle masking agents (like de-tacked Tamiya tape) on an all too regular basis!


I think it always comes back to the same conclusion. Different systems suit different people. If the odour of enamel paints bothers you or yours, or if they cause you some real discomfort then you'd be daft to use them. There are plenty of alternatives out there. If you enjoy some other aspects of the other properties of acrylic paints then you wouldn't want to use something else. Likewise if you enjoy the flexibility and toughness, ease of use, simplicity of thinning or some other aspect of enamels and have no issue with odour (I use a very good extractor system) or longer drying times then why not use them?


There is no right and wrong or better or worse. I often see models finished to a very high standard but, unless the modeller enlightens me, I would have no way of knowing what paint system he/she has used. That's the point really, it doesn't matter, and there's certainly no point in getting one's knickers in a twist about other people's choice.


It's a free choice, I use almost every type of paint out there, though I mainly spray enamels. For a newer modeller I can only say have a go with various systems, see what works and stick with that.


Most importantly, whatever you use, have fun. It's a hobby and it's supposed to be fun !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Cheers


Steve

[Guest]

There is no right and wrong or better or worse. I often see models finished to a very high standard but, unless the modeller enlightens me, I would have no way of knowing what paint system he/she has used. That's the point really, it doesn't matter, and there's certainly no point in getting one's knickers in a twist about other people's choice.

That pretty much covers it, and eloquently too!