Enamel or Acrylic, what is your paint of choice?

[Dave Jay]

It seems as though acrylics are in favour for the majority of area painting whereas enamels are used for detail painting and dry brushing.


When it comes to cost is there much difference, I know that acrylics are a bit more costly but do they go further than enamels and is there less wastage?


Bloody confusing choices and it's enough to make you despair and give up the whole thing of modelling, wheres the enjoyment when sometimes it can be so frustrating

[Robert1968]

I had hundreds of the little tins of the enamel paints but never liked the smells and the odours etc and her indoors got annoyed at me so I went to Acrylic and found Revell. So I got all 80 odd of those and possibly have a lot more now ( then I went to acrylic with Tamiya and found this paint good however it has or so I found has some annoyance with primers ( so I've found ) then I progressed to Vallejo acrylics and primers and all the air brush dilutanrs and flows etc


I found the humbrol paints ( enamels good for painting small items ( never used in A/b


Revell acrylics coverage was fair to average with A/b but tends to clog A/b even when thinned down to milky constancy


Tamiya Acrylic paints work well with A/b or brush and thin down well but seem to have some issues with primers unless you use there own


Vallejo and model air are good coverage but don't like playing I found with other primers. Vallejo has to have Vallejo primer I have found. ( Laurie prob gonna jump on this one at some point as I know he swears by Vallejo.


Vallejo paints paint well by A/b thinned and even with flow reg added but I have to admit there are soooooooooo many colours it's hard to get them all ( can be a bit pricey too


Overall though I will continue to use Acrylics over enamels


Cheers


Robert

[Dave Jay]

Thanks for that Robert. I appreciate the time taken to explain things to me.


I appreciate everyone's input. Many thanks.

[Guest]

Bloody confusing choices

No no. Just get those acrylics and try them. You will never know unless you try


them yourself. You can read Dave until the cows come home about enamels and acrylics.


All you read will be other peoples experiences.


Only one person can tell if you like enamels or acrylics. Dead easy.


Laurie

[Guest]

This old clash will go on forever, those who love enamels (me among them) and those who hate them, the only good use I've found for acrylics is on the backgrounds of my dios, so I won't discount them entirely but will never use them on a model IMHO they are rubbish (just my opinion, don't shoot me) as I've said elsewhere if they stopped selling enamels I would quit modelling, there will always be people who love acrylics and hate enamels and vice versa personally I don't see any benefits to acrylics they take just as long to cure are incredibly fragile and nowhere near the colour choice of enamels, and of course you have to stock a thinner and a cleaner for every type of acrylic you use also you have to buy flow enhancers (whatever they are) enamels white spirit no other requirements you can thin your paint clean your ab you don't need special enamels for brush painting or airbrushing you use the same tin for both. Oh and as for the oh acrylics don't smell the cleaners do and worse than white spirit so do the thinners. Nope I will stick with enamels.

[Guest]

I really do not mind who uses what Ken as it does not effect me but to put in perspective acrylics.


This is not knocking enamels this just a representation of acrylic water soluble paint.


Water based acrylics can be overcoated within an hour. I have used just air from an airbrush and


dried and then overcoated within 15 mins. With the new acrylics primer you can use acrylics within


about 15 mins over the top. To cure for varnishes etc 24 hours.


Watersoluble acrylics you can use any one manufacturers thinner for any of the other acrylic


manufacturer's paint. Not recommended by me but some use water as a thinner.


Cleaners. I use mainly water to clean my airbrush with just a cup of cleaner at the end.


99% of water soluble acrylics are non toxic. A few yellows are not.


There is virtually no smell from any of the water soluble acrylic paints. Vallejo airbrush cleaner


has a very slight smell.


Acrylics do not give me a headache. When I tried enamels I had one every session. That


may of course be just me susceptible (I had to use a comparison here which I have avoided


elsewhere)


Vallejo, as an instance, have a colour choice in acrylics of approx 300 colours plus a variety of varnishes.


Lifecolor approx 250.


Laurie

[Guest]

Whoops missed a few point raised by Ken.


Flow Enhancer. Helps with effects. Using a .2 needle/nozzle I can airbrush at 8PSI.


This gives incredible control over the flow of paint. Gives the ability to build slowly effects.


50% Flow Enhancer 50% paint.


Fragility of acrylics. When cured I have not found it fragile. On the large 1/48 Merlin I had


a couple of knocked corners that was it. As an instance acrylics are the very devil to remove


if something has gone wrong.. It is important to use primer on a properly prepared surface.


Effects with acrylics. Mentioned somewhere Jimenez acrylic techniques and what you can do


with acrylics which is certainly more than I will ever want.


Just to reiterate. I am not pitting this against enamels. Only giving what acrylics is capable


off and its characteristics.


As Tony has said what is best Bacon or Sausage. The only way is to try them.


Laurie

[Guest]

I quite agree Laurie! Try both types & see which one suits.


But I do take slight umbrage with a couple of your points ....


Acrylic paint is much more ' fragile ' than enamel. That's why people use to on smaller parts, rather than going to all the hassle of bird-gritting & priming those little parts.


Another example of enamel paint being more robust is its usage in other areas - radiators, bathtubs, camping mugs & plates ...


Secondly, I think you're being somewhat disingenuous about mixing & matching paint brands with other thinners. I know that a quick search would reveal you yourself extolling the virtues of using same brand thinner


The curious thing to me is that perhaps the belief that enamels smell hideously is becoming something of an accepted fact without actual knowledge?


As you know, I use enamels almost exclusively & often with cellulose thinners. I wear a face mask & my homemade spray booth has a particulate filter for paint particles as well as an active charcoal filter for odours - it works so well that no visitor ever remarks upon any smell, even if they come round during a session.


Personally I think the mask & booth combination is essential. Just because acrylics don't smell (much) doesn't mean they can't cause harm from overspray.

[Guest]

Another example of enamel paint being more robust is its usage in other areas - radiators, bathtubs, camping mugs & plates ...

But I do not paint these kind of things Patrick. I find planes and military vehicles much more rewarding. You should try it. Mugs and plates


As said Patrick mix and match thinners in water soluble paints as I have proved it works. OK.

The curious thing to me is that perhaps the belief that enamels smell hideously is becoming something of an accepted fact without actual knowledge?

It does. Said with knowledge and conviction.

As you know, I use enamels almost exclusively & often with cellulose thinners. I wear a face mask & my homemade spray booth has a particulate filter for paint particles as well as an active charcoal filter for odours - it works so well that no visitor ever remarks upon any smell, even if they come round during a session.

Jolly good.


"accepted fact without actual knowledge". Have been this week painting my eldest son's garage doors as he has physical difficulties. We used a cellulose based special paint for Fibreglass. Had a headache during painting and felt sick after cleaning the brushes in cellulose. Dreadful stuff. Having been in charge in my architectural life of the installation industrial paint booths I know how it is best to avoid cellulose. Air washing and goodness knows what.


Just because acrylics don't smell (much) doesn't mean they can't cause harm from overspray.If you care to look on the Vallejo site you will find certificates for ALL the paints and ALL the colours they produce giving details. Their paints have been submitted to National bodies to test and give results of their findings. These are freely available on the Vallejo site. There are a number of yellows which are toxic and this knowledge is printed on those bottles as a warning. Pleased to say that all Model Air, including the yellows, are non toxic. I still use a vent system when airbrushing.


Matter of interest do the enamel manufacturers provide this service. ?


Hope that helps Patrick.


Laurie

[Guest]

But I do not paint these kind of things Patrick. I find planes and military vehicles much more rewarding. You should try it. Mugs and plates


As said Patrick mix and match thinners in water soluble paints as I have proved it works. OK.


It does. Said with knowledge and conviction.


Jolly good.


"accepted fact without actual knowledge". Have been this week painting my eldest son's garage doors as he has physical difficulties. We used a cellulose based special paint for Fibreglass. Had a headache during painting and felt sick after cleaning the brushes in cellulose. Dreadful stuff. Having been in charge in my architectural life of the installation industrial paint booths I know how it is best to avoid cellulose. Air washing and goodness knows what.


Just because acrylics don't smell (much) doesn't mean they can't cause harm from overspray.If you care to look on the Vallejo site you will find certificates for ALL the paints and ALL the colours they produce giving details. Their paints have been submitted to National bodies to test and give results of their findings. These are freely available on the Vallejo site. There are a number of yellows which are toxic and this knowledge is printed on those bottles as a warning. Pleased to say that all Model Air, including the yellows, are non toxic. I still use a vent system when airbrushing.


Matter of interest do the enamel manufacturers provide this service. ?


Hope that helps Patrick.


Laurie

Laurie, you could give lessons in being patronizing!


Why do you take a valid point & ridicule it rather than either answer it directly?


My points weren't all about you - you may have a well-documented dislike or physical reaction to vapours & odours, but that's not everyone. Nor has everyone tried enamels - people coming into the hobby might never have used them after reading posts from the acrylic lobby.


Aa for your overriding need to prove that all Vallejo products are sooo safe, you're again missing the point!


Because a product is water soluble doesn't mean it can't cause harm, particles of paint caught in the lungs could potentially have long-term effects that are currently unknown - you banging on about that could be harmful for less experienced people who them eschew the use of a face mask etc.

[yak face]

Does anyone else remember the good old days ? when all you could get was Humbrol , Airfix or perhaps Gloy or Revell paints . We were all kids just making our models and not giving a stuff what we were using (all enamels BTW) It was such a happy time - Tony

[Guest]

This is my last comment on the subject as wherever I've seen a thread about acrylics v enamels it nearly always descends into a slanging match, acrylics are this enamels are that. People are so taken with their paint choice they seem to take any comment about their chosen paint type as a personal insult, yes I know enamels have their faults and limits, but then so do acrylics, my personal opinion is enamels work for me acrylics dont, if it's the other way round for you that's fine, we have all seen some truly stunning and outstanding work produced by both, and for some lucky people by a combination of both. I think this topic is destined to go the same way all topics about these paints go, if only enamel and acrylic users could get on in loving harmony, sigh.

[Guest]

This is my last comment on the subject as wherever I've seen a thread about acrylics v enamels it nearly always descends into a slanging match, acrylics are this enamels are that. People are so taken with their paint choice they seem to take any comment about their chosen paint type as a personal insult, yes I know enamels have their faults and limits, but then so do acrylics, my personal opinion is enamels work for me acrylics dont, if it's the other way round for you that's fine, we have all seen some truly stunning and outstanding work produced by both, and for some lucky people by a combination of both. I think this topic is destined to go the same way all topics about these paints go, if only enamel and acrylic users could get on in loving harmony, sigh.

I don't see it as a slanging match Ken - merely a spirited discussion!


But my points to Laurie about the known hazards of using modern acrylic paint are extremely valid.


The formulation of modelling acrylics is completely different to the older type. For example Tamiya acrylics are synthetic, strictly not water-based but with an alcohol base. That's why they can be thinned with cellulose thinners - you couldn't do that with a truly water based product.


It takes time for long-term health effects to show up. Years ago no-one knew how harmful smoking was, or asbestos or MDF dust. But they're all now known to be carcinogenic.


Not everyone on this forum is a member - some are guests & if they're reading that Vallejo acrylics are water soluble & no harm to health in any way (as Laurie likes to put it) ,then they might not take sensible precautions.

[john i am]

I agree with everything Ken just said and he uses enamels !

[Guest]

& no harm to health in any way

Here we go again. I have not said that any where on this forum ever or any where else.


I have always stipulated that any paint should be used in a properly ventilated space with a


mask.


A mask properly designated for the products being used. This matter only came


up a couple of days ago and to which I replied in exactly the same vein.


This is an extract from Vallejo Q & A site.


5.12. Model Air is manufactured especially for airbrushing.


do i need to wear a mask when i use the product?


Model Air contains no harmful pigments, but wearing a mask when


airbrushing is always a good idea. Anything foreign in the air we breathe,


be it dust or pollen, is best not inhaled, and pigment particles, even if not


toxic, are still foreign matter.


Laurie


PS. http://cdn.acrylicosvallejo.com/3125a70282d7ae1b26302b70f227e502/model-FAQS-CC001-rev03.pdf


Item 15 at the end gives details of health and Safety. It is worth, for acrylic uses, reading all the Q & As as


there is a lot of valuable information.