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Unless my eyes deceive me, there's no mention of Ammo paints....Originally posted by BarkingDog
And as for them being water based, how do you account for their willingness to be thinned with cellulose thinner? No other proprietary water based acrylics (Vallejo, Lifecolor etc) will do that.Comment
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Patrick - Ammo are water based and are very close to Vallejo and AK Interactive paints in their make-up. Their washes are enamel though and perhaps that is where confusion lays. I have never tried thinning any of these, Ammo, AKI or Vallejo with cellulose myself but they do react badly to ipa thinning.Comment
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Barry, I'm not a chemist so I can't say what the chemical composition of any paint is. But although Ammo are described as being water based, I know from experience that they'll happily thin with cellulose. The only other acrylics I know that share that property are Tamiya & Mr Hobby Aqueous. Both of these are synthetic acrylics with an alcohol base. If they were of a similar composition to other acrylics, any attempt to mix them with cellulose would end in that well-known gloopy mess!
That's what leads me to suspect they're not the same formula as VMA, VMC etc.Comment
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Well as luck would have it I am/was a chemist!
I can't comment on the composition of the paints mentioned, but I can comment on the composition of 'cellulose/laquer thinners'. This is not standard, various mixtures are used by different manufacturers. Some may be slightly soluble in or miscible with water, which means they might act as a thinner for a water based paint, but I don't think that all the compositions would necessarily work. It's impossible to say for sure without knowing the composition of the particular brand of thinners used.
Some thinners are largely toluene....and that will simply float on water. Xylene is the next one up in molecular terms...and has similar properties. Some contain substantial proportions of acetone....and that is miscible with water. Butyl acetate...floats on water. Ethanol....completely miscible (it forms an azeotrope which is why 100% ethanol cannot be produced by distillation). I could go on, through a list of all the solvents which I know are used in 'cellulose thinners', but it's a long list, and I won't.
There is no simple answer and at least one poster above might want to moderate his tone.
Cheers
SteveComment
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I hope not to upset anyone, but I'm dusting my mod. hat off.........
John (Barking Dog) I'm not interested in who's right or wrong on this thread, but please don't start getting personal. Discuss the subject by all means, but keep it civil and friendly like please?Comment
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You are correct. I've thinned Ammo, and AK paints successfully with Mr Color Self Levelling thinner, but not with Tamiyas Lacquer Thinner.Comment
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OK, I'll leave it at that.Comment
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John (BarkingDog), you do make some valid points, I just wanted to point out that there is no black and white answer. It's the same reason that some cellulose thinners work really well when used for joining polystyrene and others don't.
Cheers
SteveComment
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Please. Can this nonsense stop with the insertion of this post!
I'm sure Admin. and other mods don't want to read this kind of stuff, any more than the members on this Forum...........
This is a friendly, and very easy going site, and I for one am going to do my very best to keep it so!
By all means continue this interesting discussion in a controlled, civil and constructive manner - But please keep it so.
Thanks,
RonComment
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Mate, Ive only been on the forum for less than a year, and maybe Patrick was wrong maybe he wasnt, but firstly he has been a great help to me on this forum and from what I see a very well respected member here too and secondly (and more importantly) there is no need for such talk here mate. Ive tried never to be out of line here myself but I think you can make your point without getting personal here.
I dont know if the information you provided in your posts is correct or not, but your way of conveying it is rude, and thats just not right. Personally mate I think the Forum Admin should give you a warning for this behaviour.
To Patrick, I will say, mate, people make personal attacks or say stupid things all the time. Don't let it get you down mate, and keep on modelling and posting here on Scale model forums as you are a great contributor here. Trust me, I might be much younger than you in terms of experience but have been in extremely paintful/dangerous situations whilst in the Army, the kind that can never be discussed (and probably will be in more bad situations in the future as well) - a lot worse than people having a go at you. Words are just words, dont let them bother you too much, shrug em off and move on.Comment
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Thank you Ron for putting your mod cap on.
I will only add to the Please keep it civil and leave it at that.
Can we all get back on with the more important things in life. Enjoying the hobby.Comment
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I have cleaned up the thread for any "unwanted" comments so I hope that the thread still reads ok.
Right then. Onward.Comment
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I'm reading this post for the first time Ian and for the most part it reads OK.
RayComment
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To get this back on track I think that the main reason there has not been any real feed back is that I believe that the Tamiya Enamels are not available in Europe. I think it is an issue with the lables and EU. Thus not a lot of users.
I can say that Humbrol do an extensive range and that now they have moved production back to the UK they, are once more, great to use. I used to use them all the time but when they went 'bad' (made in China) I went over to Vallejo acrylic.
The good thing with Humbrol enamel is they brush on well, they spray well, they are forgiving and they are tough as boots when dry. Easy to open as well. (never got the tops off screw lid jars after one use!) The colour on the lid is pretty much whats in the tin.
The minus side: They smell, take a long time to dry and are difficult to pour out the tin. A lifting tube works well. (Large drinking straw).
Hope this is of some help.Comment
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