Alchemy

[David Lovell]

Firstly I hope Andy sorts his gloopy paint problem , but I feel at the end of the day I think it now comes down to whatever brand of paint you use ,then use their brand of thinner that way if a problem arises you've got a starting point in as much as you've stuck to the manufacturers recommendations. Where on the bottle does it say thin with India pale ale is it used because you can buy a big bottle cheap ,come on how much paint are you mixing to spray a little piece of plastic a bottle of brand thinner hardly breaks the bank plus what your save by not having to buy glass cleaner? I might have this wrong but according to legend doesn't it help flow improvement and the mythical tip drying.
For my acrylic paints mostly mr hobby aqueous paints and some mig ammo stuff I like their little fourbottle modulationsets(I don't touch velajho) I use mr colour aqueous thinner(made for acrylic paint), for lacquer paints I use mr color thinner and mr color self leveling thinner (both of wich thin tamiya acrylics superbly) all my lacquer paints are mr hobby ,brand paint brand thinners = never had a problem.
Like Richard I've hardly ever stripped down a airbrush I pull the needle now and then but thats about it , I do use a branded cleaner because that's what its made for and yes I flush through with a few drops of thinner followed by mr hobby tool cleaner.
These branded items might cost a couple of quid more but two of the bottles I've had for over two years , I won't make problems for myself by using not what it was made for products. You wouldn’t put paint thinner in your car why put de-icer in your paint!!!???

[Gern]

Can't really argue with what you've said about using manufacturer's own products together David, that has to be the way to start; but it doesn't always work out that way.

I mentioned in a recent thread that my go to primer is Stynylrez but I had problems initially cleaning my A/B. I bought a bottle of Badger Minitaire cleaner from the Badger stand at a model show 'cos they told me it was specially designed for their products - including Stynylrez. Don't waste your money - it doesn't work!

Maybe it was just me, or maybe it was a bad batch of product, but a little experimentation led me to discover that IPA works just fine. If something changes to stop it working - ie if Badger change their formula or something I'll change - in the meantime "If it works, don't fix it".

[rtfoe]

I flush my airbrush with industrial thinner if its cellulose paint used and windex if its acrylic.

When there is a blue moon I will strip the ab apart and clean with both plus soap water leave the parts to dry...hope the cats don't run away with any and assemble back. The less I muck around the longer lasting the needle gets. I drop a bead of Badger Regdab Needle Juice in the working parts aft of the paint mix section.

Like David I used the brand thinner for the same brand paint. Less hassle.

Cheers,
Richard

[dave]

My background is Chemistry and some of The stuff you read on the internet about paint/thinners etc makes no sense others do.
personally to thin Vallejo I use deionised water with a little flow improver in it, I have a wash bottle and make about a litre at a time.
to clean the airbrush I use water and a final flush with IPA. For MRP I use neat and clean with MRP cleaner for the 1st clean and finish off with IPA.
partly that is price but mainly availability, I can get standard flow improver from any of the Art Supplies Shops in town, Vallejo thinner i need to order.

[Dave Ward]

I used to use makers' thinners, but have gradually gone to using tapwater - the water is pretty soft in South Gloucs. and It doesn't seem to have any effect on the airbrush. For deep cleaning I use warm tapwater with a squirt of washing up liquid in an Ultrasonic bath, rinsing in fresh water & allowing to air dry. I'm no professional, and my airbrush is only fired up once or twice a week - I've seen no adverse effects on my paintwork since I moved to tapwater! I wish I could have said the same with one makers' thinners & anothers' paint. I have a varied selection of acrylic paints, Vallejo, AK, AK3, MiG, Hataka & even some Airfix acrylics and I'm not going to buy a bottle of makers thinners for the brands I have - hence universal tapwater!
One thing I would recommend is doing any mixing in a plastic shot glass - never in the airbrush bowl, any coagulation happens in the glass & not in the airbrush! - saving messy clean ups!
Dave

[rtfoe]

I used to use makers' thinners, but have gradually gone to using tapwater - the water is pretty soft in South Gloucs. and It doesn't seem to have any effect on the airbrush. For deep cleaning I use warm tapwater with a squirt of washing up liquid in an Ultrasonic bath, rinsing in fresh water & allowing to air dry. I'm no professional, and my airbrush is only fired up once or twice a week - I've seen no adverse effects on my paintwork since I moved to tapwater! I wish I could have said the same with one makers' thinners & anothers' paint. I have a varied selection of acrylic paints, Vallejo, AK, AK3, MiG, Hataka & even some Airfix acrylics and I'm not going to buy a bottle of makers thinners for the brands I have - hence universal tapwater!
One thing I would recommend is doing any mixing in a plastic shot glass - never in the airbrush bowl, any coagulation happens in the glass & not in the airbrush! - saving messy clean ups!
Dave

Yes Dave, mixing outside the airbrush bowl has been my go to so it doesn't clogg up the airbrush. I only mixed in the bowl when I used inks during my graphic days. Modeling paints however come with thick pigments that have to be agitated. These pigments will collect at the needle passage if not mixed well. I wonder how you get your brush to go underneath the needle rod in the cup...potential to clogg the passage if not done properly. I always prefer paint diluted to fresh milk consistency or thinner.

Cheers,
Richard

[Ian M]

I used to use water to thin Acrylics with but found that the paint when dry and "hardened" was very fragile and at time could rub off while handling. Also they where very prone to fingerprints until sealed. The problem is with water you are diluting the paint, reducing the bonding agent, thus weakening the paint. With the correct thinners you are maintaining the structure of the paint while reducing the viscosity.
I use IPA for cleaning and the such as it's a lot cheaper and more available than "the proper stuff" 90% of which are watered down IPA.
As the market for model products shrinks to almost nothing over here and even banal things like paint and glue means either a 80km drive or the internet does make it a challenge at times so I can understand the reason why people use what is at hand.

[JR]

Interesting to read what you all think and do.
When I returned to modelling I started with acrylics, A-MIG , did exactly as instructed, their thinners , etc. I didn't want to go down the Tamiya route with fumes, had enough of those at work if I did refinishing.
I had problem after problem, spluttering, tip drying etc. Wrote to A-MIG, said they would send me some ball bearings, as I had mostly red topped bottles. Never arrived so bought some, slight improvement, tried flow improver, shaking the bottle.
Thought it could be low temperatures in the cave, put heater in. At this point I nearly gave up. Even bought a ultrasonic bath, tried cleaners from Amig, Vallejo, Ultimate and now VMS.
Changed to Vallejo, slightly better, but still tip drying, I've tried different air pressures, needle sizes, you name it I've tried it. One thing I have mastered is striping down an air brush, quicker than you can say Jack Robinson .( Where did that saying come from ? )
Then Tim suggested a vortex paint mixer, a great improvement from my jigsaw powered shaker. The one thing I have noticed that is a must, keeping the area around the bottle too clean ! you remove a top and there sits a lump of crud waiting to fall into the cup. Now I used a shot glass as mentioned, keep the tops clean. Making sure that the tip seals are not worn .
I've tried the new AK 3rd gen paints and must say they do perform as stated. Hope they will make the difference and make using the ab a pleasure.

When I read how some people have no problems I just wonder what I do or did wrong !

[David Lovell]

As JR says interesting to read everybody's thoughts and methods ,up untill eighteen months two years ago I found using the airbrush very stressful not that I suffered any problems but almost intimidated by the thing ,a good friend and excellent modler Mathew John (Albion Alloys)explained thinning and air pressure told me to practice on a cupboard queen assured me once I'd sussed it , you can be told but you have to do it for yourself your own way things would be second nature as easy as using a screwdriver he was right airbrushing is down to air pressure and the consistency of your paint. I'm in charge now not the airbrush it does what I ask it to do its so much more fun. I have one expensive airbrush least I thought it was mother in law bought it for my sixtieth £130 its a procon boy with a 2needle all my other brushes are sub 30 pounders there is a difference yes but I use them all equally and I do feel that their a bit like golf clubs spend as much as you like but untill you've got a good grasp of the basics it won't improve your game. Going back to paint and pressure my daughter now 16 a year or so ago asked if she could spray something so out came a old cupboard queen,she chose the colours? all I did was thinned the paint and passed her the airbrush (one of the cheepies)told her the mechanics press down for air pull back for paint have a couple of passes on a sheet of paper to find your range and off you go ,




Now I think that's a pretty amazing good first time out straight over dust cobwebs the lot so smooth you can see the turret decals ,na it was all down to air pressure and paint consistency like I said the airbrush was a old cheapie honest paint and pressure suss it and the sun comes out.

[rtfoe]

Spot on David. :thumb2:

Cheers,
Richard

[David Lovell]

Spot on David. :thumb2:

Cheers,
Richard

Thanks Richard I dont wish to seem Blazey or I suppose big headed about this but as I've said get these two factors sorted and it makes such a difference to your whole approach airbrushing shouldn't be a trip into the unknown every time. But I think some of the guys make it hard for them selfs going back to the top heading Alchemy? Like you've agreed own brand paint and thinner its a lot less hassle. Dave