Brush vs airbrush?

[stona]

I used Humbrols for many years, and found I disagreed with James Bond. Humbrols are best stirred, not shaken
It keeps the lid cleaner and so enables you to continue to close the pot to keep out air.

And stirred for a long time, all enamels, not just Humbrol!

One of the reasons I have continued to use enamels is because I find them the easiest. They are the least sensitive to thinning ratios or thinners. I use bog standard white spirits or cellulose thinners. I usually thin in the paint cup and just count the drops of thinner to paint at about 50/50 and adjust from there. In a larger cup I just squirt in some thinners, squirt in some paint, no counting involved, and adjust that until it looks right. Paints, even within the same brand, vary and it's just one of those things you have to learn by experience. There is never any need for retardants, flow enhancers or any of the other gubbins that some acrylics require (which begs the question why are they not in the formulation you buy?) Enamels are easy to clean up. They are so easy that I often complete two or three models before I feel the need to disassemble an airbrush and give it a really good clean, mostly I just flush them through.

The main disadvantage of enamels is the smell, more of the thinners than the paints themselves, and obviously for some that can be a deal breaker. I'm lucky to have my own area and a good extractor but not everyone has that luxury. At least the odour(s) let you know something is there. Something is there with acrylics too, you just can't smell it.

Drying time? Who cares? If you are in a rush to paint a model, or do anything else to it, you're probably in the wrong hobby. This was conspicuously evidenced by my early efforts as a ten year old. I've always said that patience is the most important tool in the toolbox and I definitely didn't have it then The drying times for enamels, particularly thinned with cellulose thinners, are not as long as most imagine anyway.

[BarryW]

One aspect in this airbrush vs brush discussion that hasn't been raised is the relative skills a modeller might have in the use of both. Both instruments require a level of skill which is more likely to be uneven rather than of a similar level in both. In my case (and yes, I'm usually the odd bod out!) my recent airbrush skill now leaves my brush skills for dead. So for me the decision on what to rely on most is easy. However, it could have well been the other way around. There are some incredible brush skills on view on this forum (eg 570 - already mentioned) and I can understand that if you are blessed with such skill, an airbrush would have a lesser appeal. The decision as to what tool you use is all up to you personally.

A very good point.
But none of us are born with airbrush or hand brush skills. These are developed with experience.
Why not learn both, use both where you consider it best and most appropriate.
To me it seems ideal to take up airbrushing to learn and master a new skill after becoming a skilled hand brusher..... Personal development and all that and you can get the best of both worlds.
I never did master the hand brush!

[Guest]

And stirred for a long time, all enamels, not just Humbrol!

One of the reasons I have continued to use enamels is because I find them the easiest. They are the least sensitive to thinning ratios or thinners. I use bog standard white spirits or cellulose thinners. I usually thin in the paint cup and just count the drops of thinner to paint at about 50/50 and adjust from there. In a larger cup I just squirt in some thinners, squirt in some paint, no counting involved, and adjust that until it looks right. Paints, even within the same brand, vary and it's just one of those things you have to learn by experience. There is never any need for retardants, flow enhancers or any of the other gubbins that some acrylics require (which begs the question why are they not in the formulation you buy?) Enamels are easy to clean up. They are so easy that I often complete two or three models before I feel the need to disassemble an airbrush and give it a really good clean, mostly I just flush them through.

The main disadvantage of enamels is the smell, more of the thinners than the paints themselves, and obviously for some that can be a deal breaker. I'm lucky to have my own area and a good extractor but not everyone has that luxury. At least the odour(s) let you know something is there. Something is there with acrylics too, you just can't smell it.

Drying time? Who cares? If you are in a rush to paint a model, or do anything else to it, you're probably in the wrong hobby. This was conspicuously evidenced by my early efforts as a ten year old. I've always said that patience is the most important tool in the toolbox and I definitely didn't have it then :smiling3: The drying times for enamels, particularly thinned with cellulose thinners, are not as long as most imagine anyway.

My problem Steve is now living in a Flat.

Use cellulose & enamels & the door to my work room would be locked with me in it.

At times I am so patient I even annoy myself. But paint drying is an impatient subject.

He up there certainly made us all so different.

Actually Tamiya Acrylics for me let me know if I forget to put on a face mask. The airways
clamp up very quickly. Vallejo not at all.

One paint which does not get a look in, much, is Lifecolour. It is a very nice paint. The range
is superb. One range is totaly FS numbers which is very handy. I use them for effects. They
are easy to thin down quite dramatically with out getting splodges.

Laurie

[Tim Marlow]

And stirred for a long time, all enamels, not just Humbrol!
[COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]
Too true, though for small amounts I always used to lift out the pigment with a small spatula and mix in the wet bit on a palette until I was happy.[/COLOR]

One of the reasons I have continued to use enamels is because I find them the easiest. They are the least sensitive to thinning ratios or thinners. I use bog standard white spirits or cellulose thinners. I usually thin in the paint cup and just count the drops of thinner to paint at about 50/50 and adjust from there. In a larger cup I just squirt in some thinners, squirt in some paint, no counting involved, and adjust that until it looks right. Paints, even within the same brand, vary and it's just one of those things you have to learn by experience. There is never any need for retardants, flow enhancers or any of the other gubbins that some acrylics require (which begs the question why are they not in the formulation you buy?) Enamels are easy to clean up. They are so easy that I often complete two or three models before I feel the need to disassemble an airbrush and give it a really good clean, mostly I just flush them through.

[COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]Even the same colour can be inconsistent between batches. I have two pots of Humbrols coal black 85. One is fantastic, never separates, covers evenly with great density , the other separates as you look at it, is grainy, no coverage, leaves tram lines etc….
However, there are some things you can do with Enamels that cannot be done with acrylics or lacquers. They are superb for dry brushing and stippling. You can feather edges much more easily because once touch dry a brush dampened with thinners can reactivate the paint and allow controlled removal, and they can be dry blended the same way, enabling decent gradients from light to dark to be easily achieved. I also believe they are a tougher finish once completely cured. [/COLOR]

The main disadvantage of enamels is the smell, more of the thinners than the paints themselves, and obviously for some that can be a deal breaker. I'm lucky to have my own area and a good extractor but not everyone has that luxury. At least the odour(s) let you know something is there. Something is there with acrylics too, you just can't smell it.
[COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]
Balanced against this is the smell (though using Sansodor as a thinner can reduce this considerably) ease of use, and drying time. The worst offender is Humbrols own thinner, it is exceptionally pungent and best replaced with a low odour alternative. The thinner is undeniably toxic and certaonly requires proper PPE when sprayed. Dropper bottles (used for most acrylics) are far superior and the ability to layer or modify paint tone quickly enhances workflow immeasurably. This is usually an issue when brush, rather than spray, painting, so for figure painting in particular enamels have become less useful to me personally. Painting eyes in particular is very hard with enamels, simply due to the properties that are useful in other areas. What takes me minutes with acrylics would takes days (mostly drying time) with enamels. [/COLOR]

Drying time? Who cares? If you are in a rush to paint a model, or do anything else to it, you're probably in the wrong hobby. This was conspicuously evidenced by my early efforts as a ten year old. I've always said that patience is the most important tool in the toolbox and I definitely didn't have it then :smiling3: The drying times for enamels, particularly thinned with cellulose thinners, are not as long as most imagine anyway.

[COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]The additives for acrylics are often derided, but used properly are actually part of the system flexibility. Acrylics can be easily adapted to your preferred painting style using additives, but only when you know what that is. Sprayed Enamels can be touch dry really quickly if something like Phoenix precision quick air drying thinners is used. No paint is perfect from the pot, unless it is used for one purpose only…..those that are excellent for spraying out of the box are probably not much use for brush painting…..[/COLOR]

My diatribe in red…
What I am trying to get across throughout this is don’t simply read about this stuff. There is no “right way to nirvana “. Pick a system, brush, spray, enamel, acrylic, etc, use it, and when it doesn’t do what you want it to very well, find out what else is out there and try that…... It is the only way you will grow your skills. Just buying into kit or the latest hype marketed fad paint system (I’m looking at you AK interactive et al) won’t do it….you eventually have to sit at a bench and put the hours in!

[Guest]

There is no “right way to nirvana “. Pick a system, brush, spray, enamel, acrylic, etc, use it, and when it doesn’t do what you want it to very well, find out what else is out there and try that…... It is the only way you will grow your skills.

Hear, hear ...

[dalej2014]

My diatribe in red…
What I am trying to get across throughout this is don’t simply read about this stuff. There is no “right way to nirvana “. Pick a system, brush, spray, enamel, acrylic, etc, use it, and when it doesn’t do what you want it to very well, find out what else is out there and try that…... It is the only way you will grow your skills. Just buying into kit or the latest hype marketed fad paint system (I’m looking at you AK interactive et al) won’t do it….you eventually have to sit at a bench and put the hours in!

Very true. At the end of it all a model is judged by the result, and in all honesty it's probably only us modellers who care at all how it got there. And some may not give a hoot about that either. probably only the more serious or passionate to be honest, which a lot here seem to be. But as with any hobby, interest, pastime, skill or whatever it's the time that counts isn't it?
I've heard it takes 10,000 hours to master a skill, and although I've not actually counted, I understand the gist of it. A good point, and well made.

[Guest]

My diatribe in red…
What I am trying to get across throughout this is don’t simply read about this stuff. There is no “right way to nirvana “. Pick a system, brush, spray, enamel, acrylic, etc, use it, and when it doesn’t do what you want it to very well, find out what else is out there and try that…... It is the only way you will grow your skills. Just buying into kit or the latest hype marketed fad paint system (I’m looking at you AK interactive et al) won’t do it….you eventually have to sit at a bench and put the hours in!

Yes Tim.

Get a junky 1/48 large model (Maquette are good). Just chuck the fuselage & wings together. No sanding just that 15 mins to put together.

Then get say 3 different types of paint.

Sit there and daub that Maquette with paint. Would say acrylics to start with when experienced try enamels (near gave up model making started with enamels crazy man)

Acrylics you can wash off to get back to the plastic.

I used an old water bottle. But a model gives a clue of getting into corners sweeping swathes of paint.

Laurie

[Guest]

On thinking about this topic a little more deeply I've come to realise that in my personal situation it's never a question of airbrush versus the hairy stick because I always use both, with the airbrush predominantly used for priming all parts and for the main/larger surfaces. My brush is still used for cockpit detailing and some of the smaller parts but not all. I know from viewing build posts on the forum that other airbrush users paint their smaller parts with an AB, whereas I tend to be a bit inconsistent in this regard. Just another thought ...

[What?]

So... I'm considering spending some cold hard cash on something like this, but I've no experience with an AB. Can anyone enlighten me? Tell me the difference from a gold old hairy stick, and most important - if it's worth it!?
I'll be primarily working on 1/35 scale armour, tanks and 54mm figures. I already realise it could be a huge advantage when painting camoflague. I will be using acrylics (thinned a bit for AB) most of the time, and use a mask when I have to use enamel, laquer or similar.
I have to say I was sceptical an AB could do decent figure painting, but having seen some of the posts (followers of bone and the doggies) I've changed my mind. I realise there's a learning curve, but it's basically - air on, paint on, paint off, air off, right? I can always find old plastic bottles to practise on!
Oh, last question - cleaning. How long does it take? And is that every time you spray?
Thanks in advance!

Here is the way I started with airbrush. It's got three different brushes so you can find out what you prefer. I have since replaced the airbrush with an Iwata but I used the cheap one for a year or two befroe doing so, and it was like night and day, but at least I was well practiced before buying a more expensive brush. I still use the compressor and I also have one with a small tank. Good luck with your decision.

[What?]

I forgot the link for you. LOL https://www.amazon.com/PointZero-Air.../dp/B010TQCOEE

[Guest]

On thinking about this topic a little more deeply I've come to realise that in my personal situation it's never a question of airbrush versus the hairy stick because I always use both, with the airbrush predominantly used for priming all parts and for the main/larger surfaces. My brush is still used for cockpit detailing and some of the smaller parts but not all. I know from viewing build posts on the forum that other airbrush users paint their smaller parts with an AB, whereas I tend to be a bit inconsistent in this regard. Just another thought ...

Same here Murfie. Got a lot of bits then Airbrush. Just a few then brush. Also cockpit airbrush the main colour over all then pick out the bits with a brush.

Just dunked most of my brushes in Rosemary's acrylic cleaner. An hour & softens up paint in the stock. Pour the cleaner back into the bottle for next time.
Brushes all nice & bendy.

Laurie

[stona]

My diatribe in red…
What I am trying to get across throughout this is don’t simply read about this stuff. There is no “right way to nirvana “. Pick a system, brush, spray, enamel, acrylic, etc, use it, and when it doesn’t do what you want it to very well, find out what else is out there and try that…... It is the only way you will grow your skills. Just buying into kit or the latest hype marketed fad paint system (I’m looking at you AK interactive et al) won’t do it….you eventually have to sit at a bench and put the hours in!

I completely agree, though some products are easier to use than others, whether you are just setting out on the voyage or are already circumnavigating the globe for a second time. Essentially, some products require a lot more practice and experience to use effectively than others.

My argument is that something that keeps drying at the tip of my airbrush, requires thinning with an expensive 'own brand' thinner or else, requires constant cleaning and/or the addition of other additives simply to make it work is not as easy to use as, say, the acrylic lacquer system from MRP which will work in your airbrush every time, straight out of the bottle. What you do with it is another question, but you won't have to worry about it consistently spraying. I'm using MRP as an example, I'm sure others are available. MRP are not my paints of choice and I don't like some of their colours, but they are very easy to use.

[dalej2014]

On thinking about this topic a little more deeply I've come to realise that in my personal situation it's never a question of airbrush versus the hairy stick because I always use both, with the airbrush predominantly used for priming all parts and for the main/larger surfaces. My brush is still used for cockpit detailing and some of the smaller parts but not all. I know from viewing build posts on the forum that other airbrush users paint their smaller parts with an AB, whereas I tend to be a bit inconsistent in this regard. Just another thought ...

I'll probably go this route, if I get an AB at all. I find a small brush so much better for small details.

[Tim Marlow]

I'll probably go this route, if I get an AB at all. I find a small brush so much better for small details.

I’d say the vast majority of airbrush users go down this route as well Dale, so you’ll be in good company.

[Gern]

I reckon Steve (Stona) has raised an excellent point. If acrylics need extras such as thinners, retarders etc. why don't the manufacturers include them in their formulations?