Opinions on this pattern please.

[stona]

I've been doing a bit of research on the Bf109K. It has always been evident that the factory applied schemes were very similar but I've started to notice that some elements are almost identical. Here are two pictures of the tails of two different aircraft. Sadly only one Werk Nummer though I can't believe they were far apart.

Here's my question,particularly for the guys who spray full size. Is there any way these two tails were painted without the use of some kind of re-usable mask?

Any and all opinions most welcome.

Cheers

Steve

[Ian M]

I dont think that those two where painted with the same mask. Although very alike they are not identical. The top picture the shapes are very sharp and with finer forms whereas the lower picture the shapes are more soft and open. It could be that the mask was just held further away from the surface in the second but I'm not convinced.

Could be that the same pattern is drawn onto the mask and then cut out by hand. Two different people cut out the pattern and you will get two different masks.

That my angle on it any way.

Ian M

[Guest]

They are too similar to say that there was not some kind of design pattern issued though, far too close. Are you certain thy are not the same aircraft but at different times? There re obviously changes but they are very similar.

[Gern]

Did the guys have a diagram that they were supposed to follow rather than some sort of mask? A freehand copy of a diagram might explain why they're not exactly the same perhaps?

Gern

[stona]

Thanks for the input chaps. They are different airframes, I suppose my cropping them doesn't help! Infact I may have a good picture of a third.

These two are identified as different aircraft in the old Monogram "Close Up" ,you can try and play "spot the difference"

This is definitely a different aircraft.

There are other pictures,particularly in the JaPo book but none as clear as these. For some reason the photographers usually took a picture of their mate,often a gurning GI,standing infront of a wreck,rather than more important details lol.

My theory is that Messerschmitt were using less skilled labour late in the war and that the lack of skill forced the use of masks into the production process.

Cheers

Steve

[AlanG]

Defo a mask in my opinion. Far too simular for it not to be and as you say especially that late in the war.

On a different note. Yet again Steve you delight me with your pics. Should you ever want to find another home for your database then i will be more than happy to accomodate it lol

[Guest]

I would follow the mask theory, very nice pics also may I add, If the one with the GI, is a G series, and the first pic is a K series then masking of some kind came into play.

[stona]

They are both/all Ks. I can't find the production block data (which I've probably filed under Fw190 or something equally stupid!) but I think these are Regensburg built. Not that many were built by the Erla works.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

I would say they probably had a master of the pattern that was copied over on a mask to speed production

[Guest]

Now this is where it gets interesting,This is a pic from a book I have and it claims its a G14, it just goes to show how books can have different views,making our research even harder.

[stona]

I agree that without a Werk Nummer or a good view of the front it can be difficult to tell. I will bow to the weight of expert opinion which very definitely has this machine as a K. I reckon that is a locked down retractable K series tail wheel in my uncropped version of the piccy. It's a minefield isn't it! Some aircraft were really hybrids and are very difficult to pigeon hole. The K series was at least partly an attempt to introduce some standardisation!

It is a picture that appears in a few publications in one form or another,which one has it as a G-14?

Good fun isn't it.

Cheers

Stona

[Guest]

Sorry Steve forgot to mention the book:

Flugzeug Profile 05 Messerschmitt Bf-109G-K

Another picture that may help with your investigations.

[stona]

Thanks,that is a great picture and I'm sure I haven't seen it before. Those have been painted freehand. I'm wondering where they were found them,I shall be looking up that front later! There was a large sub contractor in what is now the Czech Republic but I'll be damned if I can remember th name of the plant off the top of my head.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Agree with the idea of a master pattern ,but with different masks used. If we respray the airforce tipe planes there are very clear guidelines as to what goes where. On the T6g target tug the EXACT size and angle of the black on yellow stripes are laid out on the drawings, no deviating off from that! Even with freehand cammo, we are still guided to exacting standards.

Theuns

[Guest]

Could it be the obertraubling plant Steve,As I cant find no more info on the pic.