Humbrol Paint advice (123+49=5?)

[Guest]

Im about to start painting my Kaman Seasprite. Fav helicopter ever so dont want to kill it. But here is my problem.

The instructions say to use a gloss Dark Grey, FS16081, which I have converted to Humbrol 5 (Dark Admiral Grey).

Now, because I want to airbrush and Ive decided that I dont want to airbrush enamals I dont want to use a Humbrol number 5. So, with the help of the very nice guy ate the Model shop in Dereham in Norfolk we have concluded that Humbrol 123 (Extra Dark Sea Grey) is the best match, but because 123 is a matt and 5 is a gloss Ill apply a coat of 49 (Gloss Varnish) over the top.

Could SKS possibly help out with the following

* - Check the 5 and 123 are near enough the same colour

* - Agree that the colour is correct

Now, when I chuck in a couple of reference shots it kinda throws in a spanner into the works

Here is a picture of what Id like to think it will turn out like

and here is a picture of the real thing

Slightly off track. Can you examine the "blueness" of the aircraft. Im not confident enough yet to mix paints, and dont really want to buy more if I dont have to.

Would you be happy with the colour Ive got for this kit?

I built this in 1/72 a very very long time ago and seem to remember not being totally happy with the colour, but went along with it anyway, but once dried the colour changed producing a colour I was happy with.

[stona]

It's that perception thing again. The second picture is taken in bright sunshine,as evidenced by the shadow. The first (model) is taken in an unknown artificial light,at least two sources. It's virtually impossible to compare the two in a meaningful way. I suspect if the model was standing in the sunshine it might look quite different.

If you think that your colour is too dark then it is! It's your model and you'll have to live with it.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

To somewhat prove Steves point in that you cannot compare the two pictures directly, I have edited the first picture. Now all I have done is increase the exposure slightly and lower the contrast. I have not altered the hugh and saturation at all, don't look so much different now do they? They are roughly the same colour, it is the intensity and colour of light that makes them look different. What you have to decide is which effect you want as they are both right.

This brings us back to the discussion re scale colour and is a good argument in favour of it. As this is an important kit for you, I would get an old plastic box or something, not flat as you want to see it as a 3D object. Spray that with a primer and topcoat of your choice, varnish it and then let it dry out. When it is all cured, take a long hard look at it. Does it look how you want it? Not how you have seen it in different pictures but does it look how you feel it should look. If it does, go spray the helicopter. If it doesn't then you have to ask yourself why. Is it too dark, too light, too blue, too grey? Whatever conclusion you come to then the original paint can be modified by adding, usually, light grey or dark grey to make it the right tone. Only in extreme cases would I add raw white and then only in small amounts. Try it again and see if that is what you want.

It may seem a lot of faffing about and some will wail in horror at the wast of paint. My answer to that is, a pot of paint costs a couple of quid. How much did the kit cost and how long did you spend building it? More than a couple of quid I suspect.

[Ian M]

Well for my 25c I would say that 123 Exrta dark sea grey is a tad on the dark side, if you are looking for a match to their Enamel nr 5 I would thing 125 US dark grey was a bit nearer, or even go as far as to say 79 blue grey. Thats purely from their colour charts, which can be a bit off.

If you are going to buy a pot the right colour, I would say look at Xtracrylix 1129, or Vallejo nr866 (or possition 165 on the rack).

You might notice that the Xtracrylix has FS 16081 and the Vallejo FS 36081 dont panic. It just means the one is gloss the other matt but are the same colour. Heres how it works.

FS codes all have five numbers, the first digit denotes the sheen 1 for gloss, 2 for satin, 3 for mat.

The second digit is the general colour group so your paint FS16081 is glossy grey. So far so good!

Heres the rest:

0=Brown

1=red

2=Orange

3=Yellow

4=Green

5=Blue

6=Grey

7=Other....?

8=Flourecent/day-glo

The last three figures are the colours intensity. The higher the number the darker the colour.

One last thing Just because there is an FS1XXXX does NOT mean that theres an FS3XXXX But in the world of modeling any thing is possible and if you cant find a gloss you just give it a gloss varnish... and vis versa.

Hope you got some thing out of that, even if it was only five minets kip!!!

Ian M

[Guest]

When you take the above into consideration then add the proviso that you want a gloss finish there is a very real possibility that a gloss varnish over a matt paint will make it look even darker.

In 1/72nd I would advise a semi gloss finish as a full on gloss could look too toy like so your options are mix up your grey using gloss and matt colours, which will give you a semi gloss, or finish off with a clear varnish, but here I would use a semi gloss not gloss and take into account the fact that the colour will darken.

This is a classic case of needing to do test pieces and be as sure as possible that what you mix up is what you want and remember the advice already given, it is more important that it looks right rather than it matches any colour photo or paint chart that you may have.

[Ian M]

Some good points there Richard, I will admit that when I use a colour chart its mostly to find a colour I think looks right and not to find THE correct colour. The only chart I trust is the fanbook I have from Vallejo as it is actually painted with the actual paints and not some (usually poor) colour print. Colour is one of the most subjective things known to man, after taste. But thats besides the point.

One thing that I have always had a quite laugh over is the people that purchase the perfect colour, "This is the actual paint they used" type of person. thus they can paint their Plane/car/tank/boat in the most accurate colour they can find. Then just to make it look more realistic, darken all the panel lines, fade the centers of panels, cover the whole cabudle in mud and muck and dust.... Whats the big issue with getting the paint colour 110% corect? And Yes I am as guilty as the next man having done this my self. Why do we do it? because it looks good? because it looks right? because we can?....

Thankfully we are all different, and if you gave the same kit to twenty different people and said they should do it as per the instructions. No extras, you would get twenty different results. THAT is what makes this damd hobby such fun.

Sorry for the highjack Penny, hope you dont mind!

[Guest]

All good stuff and relevent Ian. It reminds me of the time I made a Matchbox model of a Volkswagen Golf when I had a Golf. I painted the model with a spray can of Volkswagen touch up paint as I knew it would be the right colour!!