RAF Fuselage Markings - what colour?

[Guest]

Hi,

I've been searching the forum and the web but I'm a little confused as to what colour I should be choosing to paint the fuselage markings and fusealge band on my Tamiya Spitfire Vb.

I've decided to go down the masking and airbrushing road to applying the roundels and markings using WEM paints but when scouring the web for info. on what colour is correct I find some people using sky whilst others are using plain old white. The kit comes with what looks like sky decals but I'd say they are a little too dark to be correct.

Can someone enlighten me as to what and when the colours were for the side markings and band on RAF fighter command during WW2.

It would be handy to know not just only the Spitfire Mk Vb but also the Spitfire Mk1 from @May 1940 and the Hurricane from the BoB era too as these are my next builds.

Atb,

Colin.

[Ian M]

Some one with more detailed info will probably correct me if I am wrong but for the most the ID letters were sky, as was the fuselage band.

At some point in the proceedings the ID codes where light aircraft grey. Generally the colour of the letters follow the underside of the aircraft.

Sky undersides; Sky letters. Grey undersides; grey letters. The fuselage band was however always in sky.

The actual dates for the change over? I hope that Stona (Steve) can come along with some of his notes.

Ian M

[Guest]

Excellent, thanks Ian.

One further question though is when for the short period the RAF painted the underside half black and half white, did the letter markings become white?

[Ian M]

Excellent, thanks Ian. One further question though is when for the short period the RAF painted the underside half black and half white, did the letter markings become white?

Bugger I knew you would ask that!!! LOL.

Ian M

[Ian M]

I would not hang me up on the Sky belly = Sky lettering. I did say generally, I have no idea as to the specific "general order" that gave the what colour and when.

On the whole I look into the specifics for the kit I am building and make sure that its (more or less) correct.

If Stona don't join in the thread, you could try sending him a PM. He goes quite deep into history of not only single aircraft but also the Air Forces and the documents behind things. Its amazing what that guy knows or can find!!!

Ian M

[Guest]

Colin

A couple of sites that I look at to get info. Very interesting both of them Like all things I do not take all as gospel & check as much as is possible. Then probably give up.

Guide to British Aircraft Camouflage

Aircraft References - Cybermodeler Online

Laurie

[Guest]

Lol... There's always one more question Ian.

The reason I'm interested is I'm looking to mark up a Mk1 Spitfire with the black/white underside with a different set of markings to the kit.

Thanks for the site links Laurie, I'll take a look.

Atb,

Colin.

[stona]

Hi, I've been searching the forum and the web but I'm a little confused as to what colour I should be choosing to paint the fuselage markings and fusealge band on my Tamiya Spitfire Vb.

It would be handy to know not just only the Spitfire Mk Vb but also the Spitfire Mk1 from @May 1940 and the Hurricane from the BoB era too as these are my next builds.

Colin.

Hiya Colin,

I take it that yours Spitfire Vb is in the Day Fighter Scheme (Ocean Grey/Dark Green over Medium Sea Grey).

The fuselage band, squadron code and aircraft letter should all be painted Sky. So should the spinner. This scheme was introduced mid August 1941 and everyone knew what Sky was by then so there is less room for variation. I posted a copy of the order for this scheme here which you may find interesting.

http://www.scale-models.co.uk/aircraft/16001-day-fighter-scheme-document.html

If your Mk V is in the earlier scheme (I can't remember exactly when it entered service but it must have been by the summer of 1941) then it would be as the two below.

Both your May 1940 Spitfire and your BoB Hurricane should have had Medium Sea Grey codes.

The now familiar system of the two letter squadron code and single letter aircraft identification was introduced after the Munich crisis of September 1938. MSG was stipulated but either because of the way the paint was applied by the squadrons or because of lack of supplies there is evidence of some variation. They were all some sort of grey though. You'll notice that the size of the letters as well as the style differs considerably from squadron to squadron. Even the order in which the letters are applied was not always consistent initially,so a good reference may be invaluable.

Cheers

Steve

[stona]

One further question though is when for the short period the RAF painted the underside half black and half white, did the letter markings become white?

No.

The White/Night underside scheme pre-dates the introduction of the code letter system. From the outset the codes were to be Medium Sea Grey.

The Night/White scheme originated with Dowding and he wrote various letters about the identification of friendly fighters suggesting variations of the White/Night or Aluminium/Night undersides from May 1937 onwards.

The first service trial involved a batch of 50 Hurricanes. The decision to apply the two colour underside was taken in January 1938. On March 3rd 1938 the Air Ministry informed Fighter Command that Hurricanes with the serial numbers L1596-L1625 were ear marked for the scheme and would be delivered by the end of the month. They started to enter service at the beginning of April 1938.

The version of the scheme applied was not what Dowding wanted and there were various adjustments and adaptations made over the following months.......but that's another story!

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Excellent as always Steve

Thanks everyone for your help.

Atb,

Colin.

[Guest]

This is the Mk1 Spitfire I'm looking to make, P9372.

So from what your saying Steve it would have Medium Sea Grey codes, but what I can't tell is the colour of the underside? It looks to have the white/night scheme but maybe it's just the quality of the black and white picture.

Am I right in believing that around May 1940 the white/night pattern was still current?

[stona]

Okay,P9372 was built by Supermarine at Eastleigh and first flew on 22 Feb 1940. It went from 9MU to 92 Squadron on 6 Mar 1940. It was shot down,over Biggin Hill by a Bf 109 on 9 Sept 1940. P/O Watling escaped by parachute but sadly was badly burned.

That is an early picture. Notice that there is no fin flash and,given the vagaries of the various film types and filters used,I don't think there is a yellow surround to the fuselage roundel.

The order (AM signal X485) to add the yellow surround to the fuselage roundel and the fin flash was issued before Dunkirk on 1 May 1940 but obviously took a while to be carried out at a time when the Fighter Command was a bit busy.

Signal X296 of 15 May 1940 also required UK based fighters (all Spitfire squadrons were) to carry Red/White/Blue roundels on the undersides of the wings.

Signal X479 of 4 June 1940 ordered a yellow surround to be applied to the underwing roundel on the port,Night coloured,wing. It was to be of "convenient width" but not to overlap the aileron or its hinges.

You can see that early 1940 was a time when the markings were evolving quite quickly on Fighter Command aircraft. The only way to be certain of the state of markings on your aircraft at a given date is to have a photograph you can date. Otherwise you can use the orders above as a rough guide,but it is important to remember that they were not always carried out immiediately,particularly in squadrons that were at the sharp end at the time.

Notice also the squadron code GR. On the outbreak of war this was supposed to change to QJ as a security measure and to confuse the enemy. It obviously confused everyone else as well as photos of the squadron operating over Dunkirk still show GR. 92 Squadron used its pre-war code until after Dunkirk.

The Night/White underside colour was current until June 1940 when Sky was introduced,though due to shortages of the new colour provision was made for fighters to continue operating with the Night/White undersides until stocks became available.

I'm sure that the underside on your aircraft is White/Night but with this qualification. Spitfires at this time had only the underside of the mainplane painted this way,it was something Dowding was not happy about. The underside of the rear fuselage,tailplane and nose would all be an aluminium colour,not natural metal but an aluminium coloured dope. This is clearly visible on the nose in the picture you posted.

The squadron and aircraft code letters are definitely grey.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Thanks for the research Steve, really appreciate that.

So basically it's pick a moment in time then seeing as the RAF changed the colour scheme so much over them few months.

What I did discover was when P9372 was shot down whilst operating from Biggin Hill under 92 Squadron, it had only been there for 1 day. Originally it had spent a lot if it's operational time out of Pembrey.

Cheers Steve, your a mine of information

[stona]

Reading a thread elsewhere has reminded me that your Spitfire would have had a metal seat,not one of the plastic (SRBP,synthetic resin bonded paper) ones which weren't introduced to production until 14 May 1940. So an interior grey/green or aluminium coloured metal seat,not a red/brown plastic one.

Cheers

Steve