Help with messy masking...

[Guest]

Hi - first post!

So a month or so back I got bored of waiting for my son to be old enough to properly appreciate my Airfix nostalgia... he's only 6 but seemed to love sitting with me and 'helping' build an Airfix 1:72 Spitfire. Happy to admit here (but not elsewhere!) how much more I got out of it than he did! We went and got a second... Messerschmitt 109E, so that the Spitfire had someone to shoot. At the same time, I started googling for tips on how to improve, especially painting, decalling & weathering, as the Spitfire was a bit slap-dash, and frankly it seemed interesting and I found the process really relaxing!

So have been more ambitious painting the Messerschmitt. Used a can of spray primer to start, thinned down my acrylics (Humbrol, came with the 'starter' kit) a bit (perhaps too much?) to do multiple thin coats to avoid brush marks, and got hold of some Tamiya masking tape to try for some nice crisp lines on the 109's camo.

And it so nearly worked!

Photos below, assuming they come out properly. You can see where the paint has bled through under the masking tape - sometimes just in fiddly places where the masking tape was difficult to apply (e.g. between the nose-mounted MGs/cannon [?] and the sticky-outy-engine-thingy on the port side forward of the cockpit), and sometimes running under the tape along panel lines.

So:

1. What am I doing wrong? Perhaps I was a bit ginger applying some of the tape, worried that the lower coat would come away when I took it off, but was a bit more brutal with later taping. (No sign of any paint coming off anywhere - is this because of the priming? Do I get a Brownie Point?)
   
2. How do I fix it? Following advice I've been painting in progressively darker layers, so the runs are all dark on lighter colour. I really don't want to leave any brush marks and think I will if I just paint over with unthinned paint, but guessing that thinned paint won't cover? Do I have to remove the paint? If so, how?
   

Any advice gratefully received.

It's not the end of the world if these don't come out perfectly - once they're varnished, decalled, weathered and sealed (satin cote a good choice?) then they're being handed over to The Boy as toys and will soon be beaten-up bits of plastic lost at the bottom of the garden! I don't mind, though, as I'm treating these as practice for when I do a plane "just for Daddy".

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[Guest]

I find when using the tamiya masking tape to do my racing car shells I need to use a cotton bud to stick it down and a cocktail stick to push it down into the detail stuff, lines etc and "seal" it. you'll find that paint gets sucked into any gaps you leave. Being masking tape it doesn't tend to lift the paint underneth

[takeslousyphotos]

Another trick for difficult angles and corners ............. Cut the tape into thin 3mm ish strips and apply them first........... then mask onto the strips. That's also good for canopies to get in the edges.

Peter

[Guest]

Alasdair. For camouflage I use white tack. Cut into strips & roll to size.

You will get a slightly hazy line. The amount of "haze" will depend on the size of the white tack rolls & also the angle that the airbrush or spray can is helf. Best if you use this method to practice.

With small rolls you can get quite a clean line. I think that the slightly hazy line looks much better than the very sharp line you get with tape.Not had any major runs as your photos.

If you bed the tape down as Frostycab mentions above you should not get any runs especially as big as shown. Looks to me as if you have thinned down to much. Just seen you are using a brush & not sure how that would go with blue tack.

To seal when I use tape on canopies I paint on a thin coat (not thinned) of matt varnish. FOund this seals the tape edges.

Laurie

[Guest]

Thanks for the tips - Frostycab, wish I'd known this earlier, might have been just what I needed! Will follow this advice next time.

Takeslousy - do you mean 3mm long strips (so 3x6mm rectangles)? Or splitting down length? Never mind, think asking the question made me realise latter option doesn't help with problem!

Tecdes - Not at the stage yet where I can justify buying airbrushing equipment; my wife right now raises eyebrows at the thought of £10 on a model kit! Easing us all gently into it, I think...! I'm guessing the white tack (same as Blu tac?) prob won't work with a brush but might try it on a random bit of plastic just out of curiosity.

So...

Any tips on how to fix this? Just load on more paint, ignore unsightly lumps and chalk up to experience? Or is there something more sophisticated I can try?!

Oh and last question - for brush-painting folk, how much do you thin acrylic paints? I was trying for 60 paint / 40 water (but don't have any way of doing this accurately so perhaps didn't get it right).

[Guest]

On bleeding under tape, (as mentioned) press the edges down hard, with a rounded piece of wood or something. If the underlying paint has had a day to harden it won't come off. Also, (I use acrylic paints and an airbrush) and use Vallejo Model Air paint unthinned, or thinned 10%. I think the thicker paint resulting would bleed less.

I think Takeslousy meant strips 3 mm wide. They go round curves easier than a patch of, say, 10mm by 10mm.



I think that the best bet for repairing your bled paint is to paint over it. The result will not be perfect. To get perfection I think you would need to remove the paint and start again. I have heard that Dettol, or oven cleaner, can be used to strip paint (haven't tried it). Try:

MAXSTAR'S CLOUD - A World of Warhammer 40K: Tutorial: How To Remove Paint From Plastic Models

5 liquids that can remove dried acrylic paint from surfaces

When masking camouflage for wings I cut Tamiya Tape to the correct size and shape for the particular part of the camo pattern. To get that shape I cover some tape with a paper image of the wing printed to the exact size, and cut through the paper and the tape, then remove the paper and apply the cut pieces of tape. For the fuselage I sketch the shape on to tape and apply, recut, re-apply until I get it right. Or sometimes I first sketch and make a paper template and when that is correct, cut the tape accordingly. Here is my post describing a few variations of this method:

http://www.scale-models.co.uk/tutorials/18719-masking.html#post162832

Method 3 requires an airbrush.

I got restarted in this hobby in January and learned a lot from reading lots of posts, going back several months. My posts from mid-Jan to now asked a lot of beginner questions and the replies were hugely helpful. You could find them also.

[Guest]

I remove as soon as possible the tape. Usually before the paint has mostly cured. Any part where the Vallejo paint has strayed I use Vallejo airbush cleaner to gently wipe away the offending stray. I use a fine brush without rubbing otherwise the paint film will be disturbed.

Found that provided I do a good job in burnishing the tape theri is little to clean up. One difficulty is where the tape crosses a panel line. In these cases I lay the tape to the line & burnish the tape into the panel line before proceeding further with laying the tape.

Laurie

[Guest]

Thanks again... Stevekir, your masking method seems ingenious, and I'll be trying it next time I have camo to do. Not long, I suspect! Will have a dig around for your earlier posts, no point re-inventing the wheel. Or in my case, re-mucking-up the wheel, and re-asking the same questions for advice on un-mucking...!

Have painted over some of the offending runs, and the result is... acceptable. Chalked up to experience. Onwards & upwards!

[takeslousyphotos]

On bleeding under tape, (as mentioned) press the edges down hard, with a rounded piece of wood or something. If the underlying paint has had a day to harden it won't come off. Also, (I use acrylic paints and an airbrush) and use Vallejo Model Air paint unthinned, or thinned 10%. I think the thicker paint resulting would bleed less.I think Takeslousy meant strips 3 mm wide. They go round curves easier than a patch of, say, 10mm by 10mm.



I think that the best bet for repairing your bled paint is to paint over it. The result will not be perfect. To get perfection I think you would need to remove the paint and start again. I have heard that Dettol, or oven cleaner, can be used to strip paint (haven't tried it). Try:

MAXSTAR'S CLOUD - A World of Warhammer 40K: Tutorial: How To Remove Paint From Plastic Models

5 liquids that can remove dried acrylic paint from surfaces

When masking camouflage for wings I cut Tamiya Tape to the correct size and shape for the particular part of the camo pattern. To get that shape I cover some tape with a paper image of the wing printed to the exact size, and cut through the paper and the tape, then remove the paper and apply the cut pieces of tape. For the fuselage I sketch the shape on to tape and apply, recut, re-apply until I get it right. Or sometimes I first sketch and make a paper template and when that is correct, cut the tape accordingly. Here is my post describing a few variations of this method:

http://www.scale-models.co.uk/tutorials/18719-masking.html#post162832

Method 3 requires an airbrush.

I got restarted in this hobby in January and learned a lot from reading lots of posts, going back several months. My posts from mid-Jan to now asked a lot of beginner questions and the replies were hugely helpful. You could find them also.

You got it Steve............ 3mm wide strips.

Peter

[takeslousyphotos]

Thanks for the tips - Frostycab, wish I'd known this earlier, might have been just what I needed! Will follow this advice next time. Takeslousy - do you mean 3mm long strips (so 3x6mm rectangles)? Or splitting down length? Never mind, think asking the question made me realise latter option doesn't help with problem!

Tecdes - Not at the stage yet where I can justify buying airbrushing equipment; my wife right now raises eyebrows at the thought of £10 on a model kit! Easing us all gently into it, I think...! I'm guessing the white tack (same as Blu tac?) prob won't work with a brush but might try it on a random bit of plastic just out of curiosity.

So...

Any tips on how to fix this? Just load on more paint, ignore unsightly lumps and chalk up to experience? Or is there something more sophisticated I can try?!

Oh and last question - for brush-painting folk, how much do you thin acrylic paints? I was trying for 60 paint / 40 water (but don't have any way of doing this accurately so perhaps didn't get it right).

Alasdair,

I have one of these kicking around in a drawer it's never been used and it's no use to me............

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You are welcome to it if you want it. You'll have to buy a propellent can (I think they are £5 - £6 on evilbay) PM me your address if you want it and I'll post it up to you.

Peter

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