Acrylics I don't have: Mixing, replacing, ignoring?

[Guest]

So I'm moving onto a new model, but currently have a very small stable of paints (lots of them are those tiny pots of Humbrol acrylic that come with the Airfix starter kits... I realise I'm not winning any kudos here, but we've all got to start somewhere!). The new model needs 12 paint colours I don't have, apparently - grr.

So... thinking cap on. Would like some pointers here, have some initial thoughts, but if people can warn me off any obvious mistakes or suggest some alternatives...?

I have: 11, 29, 30, 31, 33, 64, 65, 81, 85, 90, 117, 128, 155

Plane needs: 3, 11, 19, 24, 33, 53, 55, 56, 78, 85, 171, 29, 163

...not much overlap!

Some of them I can ignore - turns out the gloss green (3) and red (19) are just for the nav lights, I can probably cobble something together there or just ignore them. A couple of paints I think I can do a straight swap for without anyone noticing, but could do with some advice on these (have relied heavily on the Humbrol wallchart a lot):

• The bombs and propeller tips are supposed to be Trainer Yellow (24). I've got Pale Yellow (81), they don't look tooooo different. Would this be kosher you reckon?
  

[ATTACH]69651.IPB[/ATTACH]

Some paints I'll just have to buy (but I think I can get away with only buying three...):

• Main top camo requires Dark Green Satin (163). I've got Dark Green (30) but that seems like a very different colour. Could perhaps mix it with Black (33) or Coal Black (Satin: 85), but as it's one of the most visible colours, I think I'd just better cough up for the paint required.
  
• Gunmetal (53) needed for guns (doh! other bits too...) and think that would be a useful paint to have anyway.
  
• A small amount of Bronze (55) is required for the leading edges of the nacelles, but don't think I'm going to be able to fake that any way.
  

Have fiddled around with two webpages that give (1) RGB codes for Humbrol shades and (2) a way of mixing shades on the screen... perhaps I'm being too clever for my own good here, but I reckon, using these, that I can fake up:

• Cockpit green (78) with a 50/50 of Dark Green (30) and Olive Drab (155).
  
• A few bits are supposed to be Aluminium (56) - bomb racks, wheel hubs and cowling flaps. I could just go Silver (11) here or perhaps mix with a touch of Light Grey (64)?
  
• Antique Bronze (171) from regular Bronze (55) plus a touch of Silver (11).
  

Quite pleased with my detective work here... but of course could be on a hiding to nothing.

One other question: where is the best place to buy acrylics from? Local stores are pretty pot luck as to what's in stock, as far as I can tell.

[yak face]

Youve got it covered perfectly alasdair , if you havent got the right colour and you can mix it then go for it , i usually do. You'll gradually build up a vast selection of colours , but theres always one you have to mix.As for where to get the acrylics , the scale-models online shop is a first stop , and dont rule out other less obvious places like games workshop, their citadel acrylic paints are excellent , the only drawback is they arent standard colours or names , but if you have got a good idea of the colour you need then just get what looks right , their metallic paints are very good (in particular the gunmetal ones ) cheers tony

[Guest]

Alasdair.

A list of conversion charts. There are many more.

http://www.paint4models.com/

http://scalemodeldb.com/paintcharts/modelmaster

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/media/0049261608364909a238add9b4a53745.cms/cc073-rev05.pdf

http://scaleworld.webs.com/colour-charts

Bit of scepticism about the charts. Some give the nearest possible others are quite exact. I hop from one chart to another ie a Revell may not have a Vallejo equivalent but has a Humbrol then use a Humbrol to look for the Vallejo equivalent. Works reasonably well but by logic it can be seen that not precise in it's accuracy.

This helps where you may wish to use another acrylic product. I would try just a pot of Humbrol Revell Vallejo Tamiya. Just to find out which suits you. Read the blurb about these products as they give a lot of advice. Some paints are more suited to airbrush others to hand painting.

Another point to experiment with. The exact colour perceived of a real aircraft may not correspond to that of producing a model. Many factors how far away form the real aircraft. Morning noon & evening the colours change, white light etc. Also the sun will parch & take the colours down a notch or two in intensity. A just finished model I thought the specified browns & greens looked harsh. Best to experiment : not on the model. So I chose green & brown near but much more suitable colours. But even these were to intense for the 1/32 model I was making. So in the brown 10 to 3 (3 white) mix. The green 10 to 2. Gives the look of an aircraft which has seen service & undergone the ravages of the elements. That is my make on things others may will have other ideas.

Also noted that various manufacturers choose the colours they have in their repertoire which do not always correspond to the original exactly.

Laurie

[stona]

I agree that you've got it covered. Just a couple of points. The bombs were buff coloured and trainer yellow is far too yellow for that. That pale yellow is a bit closer anyway. You want a sort of mustard colour.

For the guns, paint them any black and when dry apply some graphite powder (rub pencil on sandpaper to get this) and rub on until you get a nice blued barrel effect.

You didn't say what you are building, but it's obviously British! I suspect the "leading edge of the nacelles" being a bronze colour are the exhaust collector rings. Don't beat yourself up too much as they varies a great deal. Google an aircraft that had this feature and you'll see what I mean.

Good luck!

Steve

[Guest]

Thanks everyone. Steve, it's a Handley-Page Hampden, so I think you're right. Gunmetal tip gratefully received as LMS closed today and Hobbycraft doesn't stock Humbrol acrylics, it turns out, just enamels. Laurie thanks for the links - lots to look at!

Is it OK to mix acrylics from different manufacturers, or can this cause issues?

[Gern]

Mixing paints from different manufacturers isn't a good idea. Some use different materials for the 'carriers' - which is the fluid which carries the colour pigment and therefore the paints won't mix properly.

You can also have problems using different manufacturer's additives such as retarders and thinners. Best to keep them all the same. Painting can be difficult enough without adding more complications!

Gern

PS Don't beat yourself up too much trying to get exact colour matches. There's LOADS of reasons why colours can look different even when the paint has come from the same can. Here's one of many, many hundreds of threads on this issue:

http://www.scale-models.co.uk/threads/olive-drab-khaki-olive-green-dark-khaki.15283/#post-118407

PPS Just checked the link. For some reason all the formatting on my post has gone kerblooie! Don't know why but you can still make out the gist of what I tried to say.

[stona]

Don't beat yourself up too much trying to get exact colour matches. There's LOADS of reasons why colours can look different even when the paint has come from the same can.

That is some very good advice.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Hmmm well some research (and a lot of time wasted that could have been used more productively!) has got me more confused than ever. I noticed that some of the sources Laurie linked to had slightly different shades for named Humbrol colours. Initially, I thought, "Great, there's some leeway here..." Before I got too far into this wee project, though, I realised that some of the variation is pretty intense! Check sample below from the spreadsheet I have now officially abandoned...

So, I'm officially ceasing and desisting from worrying about colours for a while! Maybe if I start to get really into it I can geek out on it later. For now, there's going to be a lot of, "Meh, close enough."

[ATTACH]70061.IPB[/ATTACH]

[Guest]

Alasdair do not fall into the trap of judging colours on line or from a colour card which I suspect is how you reached your conclusion.

The cards depend on the printer his colours the paper he uses & the machine he uses to print. On your monitor even if you have had colour calibrated by a Pro. you will not get a proper judgement.

The only true comparison you will get is a sample on the same piece of material. There are a variety of standardized colours. RAL RLM Federal Standard. Providing manufacturers are true to those standards they are very accurate.

I supect if you take the colours from each manufacturer which are supposed to be the same but are a little out if you view them separately you would not know the difference.

Laurie

[Guest]

Yeah, the best I could do was comparing them all on the same monitor... but was surprised by how much disagreement there was between sources. Started looking at some old photos to see if I could get a better idea of what colours to use from there... but then you run into a different set of problems (i.e. colours fading on planes vs fading in photos, how well originals were scanned, etc etc etc). So... if I can get "close enough" I'll be happy!

[Guest]

As touched on earlier Alasdair best thing is to get a 2L clear plastic drink bottle. Then put a large patch of colour on or if camouflage the two colours, for instance brown & green if RAF WW2, & see what it looks like.

Find some of the greens are really harsh & although may be the authentic colours they just do not look right at scale size. Seen some Lancasters with authentic colours & they just do not look like the thing in the real.

But then after saying that others may not like my interpretation. Sums up model making & artistic works it is all in the eye of the believer. I find more & more that is one of the prime interests in model making not all the building but the making it look authentic to my eyes.

Laurie

[Guest]

Close enough is as good as we can get I'm afraid... Lots of people get too involved and obsessed with it all, there's too many variables to influence your choice and in fact the finished colour .. To name a few ... Scanning variables, Printing colours vary, monitor calibration varies, the paint quality varies, the base colour (primer) has an influence, lighting of the original subject varies (if taken from a photo) and lastly our eyes perceive colours in different ways so what looks like a blue-black to one could look red-black to another.

I worked in a dyers and finishers for 10 years matching fabrics to colour standards for big companies (including MOD), we were all ''colour tested'' every 6 months. Often we got a 99% plus match visually and the spectrophotometer tidied up the last few percent ... Even after all that some matches were rejected because they didn't look right to one of the customer's MD's or QC staff, even the confirming paperwork didn't convince them... Go figure eh?

[Guest]

Yes spot on Colin all in the mind. Some like purple some like mauve but it depends on who is wearing either ! (or neither whoops thought I had typed nothing----- of interest)

Laurie