What shade of black for a Lancaster

[Guest]

I don't normally like to be pedantic Laurie and please excuse my correction, but in the case of black, it absorbs all light .. i.e. there is a complete absence of any transmitted or reflection of light in any wavelength.

As you say, true black is not actually a colour, but technically a shade, of which there are two... Black and white or ''half tone''.

To replicate black artistically we have to mix colours, so black is in effect a very dark red/green/blue .. whichever the most dominent colour, and as you say not a true black at all.

At the dyehouse we had swatches of fabric colours to match against for all the customer standards and there were several dozen different shades of black alone ... Trying times

[Guest]

Emphatically you are right Colin. Got mixed between white & black & my apologies.

Laurie

[stona]

That applies to a theoretical black, the concept if you like. Unfortunately for we modellers, and the RAF's aircraft caught in search lights, the actual paint on these aircraft did reflect some light.

The modern air show queens are lovely to see but their finish is not representative of a war time bomber at all. I posted some pictures in that other thread of a Lancaster, fresh off the production line and test flying, awaiting delivery to a unit which gives a much better idea of the finish on these aircraft.

Night was black paint, like all black paints made up from a variety of pigments. The problem is not a technical one when it comes to painting your model. It is an artistic one. As Laurie discovered, if you paint a model black it will not look at all realistic no matter how accurate the colour. You will have to apply a grey of some description. I've seen this done in various ways by various people and I can't say that one looks better than another.

It also depends on the scale of the model, the smaller the model the more grey (or less black, depending how you see it) it will need to be.

How black is this 1/72 scale He 177's lower surfaces?



I can safely say not more than 80%

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Interesting subject. It's funny how we quite often get into the subject of real colours for a great number of things such as U-Boats, AFVs, aircraft etc. I'm absolutely convinced that. at the end of the day they were all painted with whatever was left in the shed at the time! Add weathering, battle damage repairs and maintenance and any surface is pretty multicoloured. The good part is that no-one can say with any great authority that we have painted something wrong!

[AlanG]

Exactly Richard. Everyone's own perception is different. Just go with what you feel is right to your eyes

[stona]

And I'll third that Richard, well said.

There is absolutely no point in replicating what we imagine might have been the exact colours on a small piece of plastic (or anything else) anyway. It's art, not science and as Allyne says, everyone's perception is different.

I'm interested in the research of the paints and preparations used on WW2 aircraft, but don't confuse that with what I put on my models.It's supposed to be fun isn't it? If it looks alright to you, then that's as good as it gets

Some may remember this Spitfire XIV owned by Spencer Flack and flown in a rather snazzy red and white scheme.



At one air show Flack was told that his Spitfire was not in the right colours and should be painted as in WW2. His reply is the stuff of legend.

"And what colour is your Spitfire?"

Enough said!

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Interesting I normally make up my mind as I start each model which colour I am going to use & to amend it as I like it at that moment. This is without reference to what I have produced before.

Just had a look at the WW11 models completed with the grey green & brown camouflage colours. Amazed as they all look the same.

Laurie

[Guest]

Note: I have corrected a mistake in my post above on the ratios of black to grey. The correct ratio I used is 40%/60% Vallejo Black 71.057/Dark Sea Grey 71.048

Having put the first coat on both wings and a quarter of the fuselage (much bigger areas than my test pieces), it looks to me a little too light. I will finish the first coat of the fuselage with 60%/40% Vallejo Black 71.057/Dark Sea Grey 71.048 and make a decision for the final coat. But, as has been said, it seems the best result is simply to avoid an extreme: too black or too grey.

[Guest]

As Laurie mentioned, I found that paint on a large surface such as a wing looks different from when it is on a small test patch. To get the colour that I wanted I eventually settled on 20%/80%Vallejo Blac[ATTACH]69564[/ATTACH] k 71.057/Dark Sea Grey 71.048 (1 part grey and 4 parts black). Its definitely dark but not actually black. I peeled off the masking and was very pleased with the sharp line between black and dark earth/light earth on the fuselage. (I pressed the edge of the tape well down then painted a narrow line of Klear over the edge, to stop bleeding). (The black in the image looks lighter than on the model.)

[ATTACH]70509.IPB[/ATTACH]

[stona]

From what I can see there I'd say you've got that very right Steve. I'm looking forward to seeing the whole model!

Cheers

Steve

[flyjoe180]

Looks good Steve.

[Guest]

I peeled off the masking and was very pleased with the sharp line between black and dark earth/light earth on the fuselage. (I pressed the edge of the tape well down then painted a narrow line of Klear over the edge, to stop bleeding). (The black in the image looks lighter than on the model.)[ATTACH]69666[/ATTACH]

A help I have found to mitigate the tendency for any paint to gather on the masked joint, as in the joint between the black & the rest, is to spray the sides of the fuselage with the fuselage upside down ie black in the air. Always a problem here as in some areas you end up with 6 coats of paint.

Laurie

[stona]

First make sure that the edge of the masking is well burnished down. An application of Klear or similar, as Steve did, will help but is not always vital. Spray slightly away from the edge of the masking, definitely avoid spraying into it. You don't want to have your airbrush at too big an angle to the subject or you'll just create other problems. I always try and maintain the airbrush close to a right angle with the subject, allowing an arc of maybe 15 degrees. Don't spray too heavy a coat as this will inevitably build up into a ridge along the masking. Number one modelling tool is patience (remember I still use enamel paints)! You can always come back and spray a second, light coat, later.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest]

Just add, to what Steve's info has stated, that before releasing the masking tape. Using not a Morton Blade, as they are thick & not as sharp as supposed, but a razor blade the type with the thick backing. Along the edge just draw it along carefully, not down to the bone, just enough to score a line & the tape come away in impeccable fashion.

Laurie

Just going to start an article on this business of "edges" especially on transparent pieces, ie cockpit covers, as I have not yet produced one which I am relatively proud of let alone damn good.

[Guest]

I think that looks pretty good Steve and I'm sure the more you look at it the more pleased with it you will be. I think black and white are two of the most difficult things to achieve realistically in modelling and you have done a pretty good job there.