Weathering tanks - realistic vs. artistic?

[Guest]

WOW!!! Jim - what stunning works of art - and still 100% realistic representation if you ask me, and none of the stuff I somewhat critiqued in my initial question of this post!
Seeing pictures like this really spurs me on, but at the same time it's also a reality check to really learn the basics first in order to fully understand why, how and when you do apply the various layers of paint and weathering.
Also genuine experience with various paints/products etc is certainly key to success, but most of it is talent and the ability, as you said, to never rush and take however long time it takes.

As someone on the other end of those 40 years of experience I do appreciate buying an airbrush simply because it's a fantastic method of applying base paint to large surfaces - both flat and uneven, but I admit to preferring using the brush myself whenever I can. It took some time to find brushes that worked for me, but now I can paint eyes on my 1/35 figures with control so I'm improving skill-wise.
I'm not too worried about making errors because we learn by doing mistakes, but I've also set out to build my King Tiger to be much better than I can muster today so that's why I'm pestering you with questions all the time - in order to either figure out why something went horribly wrong, or in order to avoid stupid mistakes before they happen; like mixing paint with the wrong thinner e.g.
Unless I push and force myself to learn something new and complicated I won't improve either, but I've got a desk full of "trainer" models and others "in progress".

I will always be keen on trying to make my models look real and to show the mechanical construction behind it because that's something I admire, but when done correctly "heavy" weathering should look natural and when done correctly - like you've done - it doesn't stand out like some of the models I was referring to earlier. You've convinced me that weathering isn't bad at all - as long as it's got a purpose.

I will happily admit not being able to do the steps I can't at the moment and do something else meanwhile, but seeing your models has certainly given me a real goal to achieve!
I might never reach it but unless you try you never know

You all are always more than allowed to post as many pictures you want in my threads on the forum because they all help me, and others, a lot by providing inspiration and proof that things can be done!
My only regret is giving up 30-ish years ago building scale models and scratch built balsa wood air planes... I had zero influences and encouragement back then and the availability of products where I lived wasn't exactly great. (it was terrible)
Luckily I found it again

THANK YOU for showing your fantastic creations Jim!

[grumpa]

WOW!!! Jim - what stunning works of art - and still 100% realistic representation if you ask me, and none of the stuff I somewhat critiqued in my initial question of this post!
Seeing pictures like this really spurs me on, but at the same time it's also a reality check to really learn the basics first in order to fully understand why, how and when you do apply the various layers of paint and weathering.
Also genuine experience with various paints/products etc is certainly key to success, but most of it is talent and the ability, as you said, to never rush and take however long time it takes.

As someone on the other end of those 40 years of experience I do appreciate buying an airbrush simply because it's a fantastic method of applying base paint to large surfaces - both flat and uneven, but I admit to preferring using the brush myself whenever I can. It took some time to find brushes that worked for me, but now I can paint eyes on my 1/35 figures with control so I'm improving skill-wise.
I'm not too worried about making errors because we learn by doing mistakes, but I've also set out to build my King Tiger to be much better than I can muster today so that's why I'm pestering you with questions all the time - in order to either figure out why something went horribly wrong, or in order to avoid stupid mistakes before they happen; like mixing paint with the wrong thinner e.g.
Unless I push and force myself to learn something new and complicated I won't improve either, but I've got a desk full of "trainer" models and others "in progress".

I will always be keen on trying to make my models look real and to show the mechanical construction behind it because that's something I admire, but when done correctly "heavy" weathering should look natural and when done correctly - like you've done - it doesn't stand out like some of the models I was referring to earlier. You've convinced me that weathering isn't bad at all - as long as it's got a purpose.

I will happily admit not being able to do the steps I can't at the moment and do something else meanwhile, but seeing your models has certainly given me a real goal to achieve!
I might never reach it but unless you try you never know

You all are always more than allowed to post as many pictures you want in my threads on the forum because they all help me, and others, a lot by providing inspiration and proof that things can be done!
My only regret is giving up 30-ish years ago building scale models and scratch built balsa wood air planes... I had zero influences and encouragement back then and the availability of products where I lived wasn't exactly great. (it was terrible)
Luckily I found it again

THANK YOU for showing your fantastic creations Jim!

You're more than welcome Jens, I do agree that most "weathering" one sees in magazines and the like are quite exaggerated, my method builds layer upon layer of color and shades
eventually culminating in a multi depth offering.

One thing that is lacking in these "text book" processes imo is scale. While close up observation of an AFV in what ever circumstance or condition can reveal certain detail
one must mentally shrink it down(35 times!) thus subtlety. just think of your project as an oil painting in the "realist" genre using a pallet and mixing on the spot, only your "canvas" is your model.

I use only the cheapest water based craft paints and never deal with nasty oil based paints or smelly thinners, my brushes of choice are your basic craft brushes (cheap) but
for dry brushing ladies eye shadow brushes are the best, just ask the Missus and I'm sure she has a few on hand.

Verlinden was a master at this technique of multi-layered dry brushing, look up his work, though quite dated it is an immortal truth.
There are no shortcuts in my work, else why bother.


Jim

[Guest]

Sorry to bring up an old post but I'm curious about this subject as well. I think the original poster's intent was, how realistic is to have a tank with paint scratched off all over the entire vehicle and numerous rust? When I see a lot of tanks entered into competitions there is so much weathering that the vehicles look like they've been neglected for years. I have no problem with dust, dirt, mud, grime or even battle damage. I highly doubt though that crews, even during wartime, would allow their tanks to develop rust all over. I'm also having a hard time finding reference pictures showing real world tanks with as much paint scratched off as you see in many winning painting competitions. I've never seen real tanks though during a war setting so I'm not 100% sure if this is realistic or not.

[Guest]

Rick, as the poster of this question earlier this summer I've come to understand the question better now and realised there is no simple answer, and yet there is.

Having done my duty in camo green I was exposed to more real world experience than one could need for this hobby, but scale modelling is about more than realism.
Many people take scale modelling to the extreme when chasing accurate details and "fixing the errors" of the kits. Some even count rivets - and that's perfectly fine because the scale model is yours and you make it for you and your ideas - not to a set of rules. Many use the scale model as their canvas in a way and create something beautiful - but perhaps not so accurate, or realistic, with regards to wear, tear, repairs and maintenance in real life where we fix every blemish or collected dirt as soon as possible!

In competitions there seems to be a set of criteria that you are graded on - and some of these are a mystery to me, but that's not why I got back into modelling again. I'm doing it for me, thus only my rules apply!
I prefer my scale models to look new and unbeaten rather than the opposite, but I can definitely appreciate the fantastic builds others do with dirt, grime, rust and carnage but more as a piece of art rather than an accurate miniature model. This could mean that competitions are all about artistic skill rather than an accurate miniature representation, but without first hand experience in competitions that's only my speculation.

The original question is still valid as in why the "unrealistic" form is the norm, but perhaps the simple answer is "because we can?!"
Go to a museum/art gallery and look at the most famous paintings in history and you'll find that few of them are accurate and realistic. You will also see trends when someone discovered a new technique, form or paints, and how this changed throughout the years. Everything is allowed in art and I think scale modelling is absolutely an art form itself.

I no longer worry what others might think of my scale models. I do "worry" what I will think about my scale models so I try to learn the required techniques and get the necessary experience in order to make something that vaguely resembles my original idea and hope to improve my skills doing this. Most importantly I'm having fun and that's why we all are doing this I guess.

[m and c warchildren]

Hi Jens,

I agree with what your saying and I think that NATO has a better standard of looking after their kit than say most middle eastern countries, but even then when deployed on operations kit does deteriorate the vehicles we used in Afghanistan where handed down from unit to unit, so the vehicles themselves stayed in theatre and though looked after damage, rust, and lots of dust do happen so I can imagine in ww2 they were more weathered than a modern vehicle.

As an interest here's a picture I took of the Qrf Land Rover at Royal artillery barracks woolwich and this is a vehicle based in the uk and there's plenty of weathering lol.
[ATTACH]286531[/ATTACH]

[Guest]

The way I see it.
A vignette, diorama or just plain old model is done by the modeller as a 'snapshot' in history, like someone has jumped into a scene, clicked the shutter and jumped back.
This could be mid battle, before, during or just after crossing wild cold wet muddy terrain and the crew taking a breather before they start looking to maintenance etc, also, the vast majority of tanks modelled on forums tend to be 'in war' examples.
The only heavily rusted model tanks I've seen are whif/post apocalyptic or abandoned during a hasty retreat, things like exhausts would rust more readily than others and again in wartime would not be high on the list of important tasks, 'Hans, ven ve reach ze next village be a dear a pop to halfords for some of zat high temp paint vud you'
Also, the other side of this is, if you like the model and it's your model and you haven't built it for a customer or competition with strict requirements, who cares?
The beauty of tanks and AFV's I think is that it allows people to get dirty, instead of the pristine parade ground examples anyone can build out of the box and while I've only built one tank, (2 if you count the tiny Zvezda thing) I love to see creatively weathered AFV's realistic or not.
Sure we can all be picky about things, I'm one of those who'll watch a movie and go, '10 shots from a 1911 without reloading? Really? But then I remember to shrug and enjoy the movie anyway.