Varnish, wash, thinner mismatch

[Guest]

With the micro sol Try another clear coat over the top, it should restore the finish....

I did that, Tim. There was improvement but the earlier effect is still obvious. More coats would probably improve it. With decals like roundels I always restrict use of Micro Sol to the decal itself ensuring nothing runs/spills off the decal surface. That makes any marks hard to discern, however, it's no help with other shapes like letters, numbers etc, and not with silvering of the edges.

With the model I mucked up early in this post another strange phenomena occurred in that subsequent coats of Ammo clear over the decal wouldn't take. In fact the clear coat over the decals turned into blobs - which I'd never struck before. The decals were allowed 24 hours drying between Micro Sol and the next gloss clear coat.

[Guest]

I did that, Tim. There was improvement but the earlier effect is still obvious. More coats would probably improve it. With decals like roundels I always restrict use of Micro Sol to the decal itself ensuring nothing runs/spills off the decal surface. That makes any marks hard to discern, however, it's no help with other shapes like letters, numbers etc, and not with silvering of the edges.

With the model I mucked up early in this post another strange phenomena occurred in that subsequent coats of Ammo clear over the decal wouldn't take. In fact the clear coat over the decals turned into blobs - which I'd never struck before. The decals were allowed 24 hours drying between Micro Sol and the next gloss clear coat.

Easiest solution is to ditch Micro Sol and try something else. Any suggestions?

Ditched all the Sols some time ago. Been using Daco Products strong decal setting liquid.

Superb stuff. i use strong all the time but they do two lesser strengths. Not had any reaction on varnish.

Let the decal dry. Give a coat of Deko. Look useless. Go away come back 15/30 minutes later & it moulds around hinges into panel lines.

Used it on some difficult objects & has worked perfectly. Fot thicker decals it is a must.

[rtfoe]

I've been reading this thread and am baffled why there is a problem. All you need to know is basic knowledge of the difference of the chemical make up of the paints and solvents in use. Water based or petroleum based or plant based.

Cheers,
Richard.

[Matt.]

Hi Murfie,
I use micro set and micro sol without any issue an I don’t do any varnishing between.
Just a thought and I could be completely wrong. If you are cleaning with water could it be the water reacting with the acrylic varnish layer?

[Guest]

Hi Murfie,
I use micro set and micro sol without any issue an I don’t do any varnishing between.

Wow how do you do that Matt.. ? With most paints it is almost impossible not to get light reflected back on the the decal backing.
Producing silvering. Do you use gloss paint ? With a matt paint the decal gloss backing is bound to stand out against that matt finish..

[Guest]

I've been reading this thread and am baffled why there is a problem. All you need to know is basic knowledge of the difference of the chemical make up of the paints and solvents in use. Water based or petroleum based or plant based.

Quite so, Richard. Therefore it follows that given the chemical composition of Micro Sol then you should not use it with any water based acrylic products.

[Guest]

My line of thinking is to try things on spare bits. It gives the best clue as to what does & not work.

Given that trial must include ensuring that effective curing has taken place.

[rtfoe]

Quite so, Richard. Therefore it follows that given the chemical composition of Micro Sol then you should not use it with any water based acrylic products.

Yes, I think most decal solutions have a trace of vinegar which creates white spots on varnished acrylic surfaces. This disappears after an over coat of the same acrylic varnish. It is a bit disturbing at first but I'm used to it now and know how to eliminate it.

Cheers,
Richard

[Guest]

Yes, I think most decal solutions have a trace of vinegar which creates white spots on varnished acrylic surfaces. This disappears after an over coat of the same acrylic varnish. It is a bit disturbing at first but I'm used to it now and know how to eliminate it.

Cheers,
Richard

That does not happen with Daco products. The surface is undisturbed after the Daco dries.

On small surfaces used decals on matt surfaces. The Daco hides the tranparent edge even on matt surfaces & leaves not a trace on the paintwork.

[Matt.]

Wow how do you do that Matt.. ? With most paints it is almost impossible not to get light reflected back on the the decal backing.
Producing silvering. Do you use gloss paint ? With a matt paint the decal gloss backing is bound to stand out against that matt finish..

Hi Laurie, I maybe mislead you on that, sorry. I gloss coat micro set the decal on, micro sol to get it flat, gloss again and then finish with matt

[tagarnav]

Hi guys, I recently had a problem with coats, I have only acrylic ones (Vallejo and mig's Lucky ones) I recently used the Lucky one for gloss, then decals (had a few issues using Tamiya's Super strong Mark fit as I'll melt basically the coat), then added another clear matt coat after this with same Lucky product from Mig, and when applied Tamiya's panel liner and then a wash that I made from pigments, water and cleaning liquid (detergent) some parts of the coat were peeling off when doing a pass with a wet paper towel.
This really frustrated me as it almost ruined my model, and set me up a bit. I was wondering if I should use Enamel clear coats only, since all of my painting and most weather effects are done with acrylics and water based paints, except for the last last weathering pass where I use some oil paints.
What do you guys recommend? BTW, I'm back from a 20 yr retirement from the hobby lol, I did build 3 kits to get myself used to the airbrush and reconnect with old skills.

Thanks!

[Guest]

Hi Leo. Cannot comment on your predicament only state what
I use which does not normally present any problems.

All acrylics except the Panel Liner.

Primer Stynylerez which dries quick & hard. Also can be sanded to a feather edge. Vallejo Primer (great peeler) I found to be a plastic coat not hard & does not adhere to plastic as Stynylerez does.

Basically I use Tamiya XF & X range. Very rare that that changes.

Tamiya is much harder when cured than Vallejo. I ditched Vallejo for Tamiya XF

I uses Alclad 11 gloss varnish on the Tamiya XF only after properly cured. About 2 days

Also us Tamiya Panel line over Alclad. Only after properly cured. About 2 days.

With that no problems. After reading of many problems I stick to what I know works, at least fro me.

Only disadvantage with Tamiya limited colours. But you soon become adept at mixing.

Laurie

[Tim Marlow]

Photos might be useful for us Leo. it’s a little difficult to fully envisage what is going on from a description.
However, to try and help…..as Laurie, my “system”, such as it is, varies slightly from yours. I use pretty much the same paint regime as Laurie, but usually use Klear as my gloss varnish. After applying decals I then gloss varnish again to seal them. After that I panel line using thinned oil paints and then matt varnish and finish with pigments.
I think part of your issue may be panel lining over a matt varnish. These varnishes are quite rough when dried and could be lifting due to friction when you use the tissue, which is also quite rough, on them. Try panel lining over a gloss surface, and then matt varnishing, to see if there’s an improvement.

[Guest]

Photos might be useful for us Leo. it’s a little difficult to fully envisage what is going on from a description.
However, to try and help…..as Laurie, my “system”, such as it is, varies slightly from yours. I use pretty much the same paint regime as Laurie, but usually use Klear as my gloss varnish. After applying decals I then gloss varnish again to seal them. After that I panel line using thinned oil paints and then matt varnish and finish with pigments.
I think part of your issue may be panel lining over a matt varnish. These varnishes are quite rough when dried and could be lifting due to friction when you use the tissue, which is also quite rough, on them. Try panel lining over a gloss surface, and then matt varnishing, to see if there’s an improvement.

Yes agree entirely Tim. Panel line over gloss as the panel liner will stain a matt varnish.

Should have mentioned that Leo but Tim is better at minor detail :tears-of-joy:

Laurie

[Tim Marlow]

That’s 35 years in the pharmaceutical production industry Laurie. The mantra goes….If it’s not written down, it’s a rumour……and if it’s not signed for it’s graffiti!
A panel line or pin wash is also better carried out on a surface that has been pre-wetted with the appropriate solvent Laurie…that minimises tide marks….I missed that bit LOL…..